1 00:00:02,361 --> 00:00:05,081 (dramatic music) 2 00:00:15,361 --> 00:00:17,561 - I'm going to work in Woolworths. 3 00:00:17,561 --> 00:00:20,161 - When I grow up, I want to be an astronaut. 4 00:00:20,161 --> 00:00:22,761 - When I get married, I'd like to have two children. 5 00:00:22,761 --> 00:00:25,561 - My heart's desire is to see my Daddy. 6 00:00:25,561 --> 00:00:29,401 - I don't want to answer that. 7 00:00:29,401 --> 00:00:31,601 (children yelling happily) 8 00:00:31,601 --> 00:00:34,321 - [Narrator] This is no ordinary outing at the zoo, 9 00:00:34,321 --> 00:00:35,921 it's a very special occasion. 10 00:00:36,801 --> 00:00:37,961 We've brought these children together 11 00:00:37,961 --> 00:00:39,641 for the very first time. 12 00:00:39,641 --> 00:00:41,321 (children screaming) 13 00:00:41,321 --> 00:00:43,961 They're like any other children except that they come 14 00:00:43,961 --> 00:00:46,401 from startlingly different backgrounds. 15 00:00:47,401 --> 00:00:49,041 - Stop it at once. 16 00:00:49,041 --> 00:00:50,601 - [Narrator] We've brought these children together 17 00:00:50,601 --> 00:00:54,641 because we wanted a glimpse of England in the year 2000. 18 00:00:55,601 --> 00:00:58,881 The shop steward and the executive of the year 2000 19 00:00:58,881 --> 00:01:00,721 are now seven years old. 20 00:01:00,721 --> 00:01:03,921 (dramatic music) 21 00:01:03,921 --> 00:01:07,801 - [Michael] In 1964, World in Action made Seven Up. 22 00:01:07,801 --> 00:01:11,001 We have been back to film these children every seven years. 23 00:01:11,001 --> 00:01:12,921 They are now 42. 24 00:01:21,121 --> 00:01:23,081 - Is it important to fight? 25 00:01:23,081 --> 00:01:24,241 Yes. 26 00:01:24,241 --> 00:01:26,361 (children chattering) 27 00:01:26,361 --> 00:01:29,041 - [Michael] Tony was brought up in the East of London. 28 00:01:30,841 --> 00:01:31,961 - I wanna be a jockey when I grow up, 29 00:01:31,961 --> 00:01:35,361 yeah, I wanna be a jockey when I grow up. 30 00:01:38,161 --> 00:01:40,601 - [Michael] At 14, he was already an apprentice 31 00:01:40,601 --> 00:01:43,041 at Tommy Gosling's racing stables in Epsom. 32 00:01:43,961 --> 00:01:45,881 At 15, he left school. 33 00:01:51,241 --> 00:01:54,561 - This is a photo finish of when I rode at Newbury. 34 00:01:54,561 --> 00:01:56,001 I'm the one with the white cap. 35 00:01:56,001 --> 00:01:58,041 I was beaten a length and a half a third 36 00:01:58,041 --> 00:02:00,201 and had a photo finish. 37 00:02:00,201 --> 00:02:03,041 So, I took it out of the box and kept it as a souvenir. 38 00:02:03,041 --> 00:02:04,361 - [Golfer] It's only an eight. 39 00:02:05,441 --> 00:02:07,881 - [Michael] By 28, he'd given up on horse racing. 40 00:02:09,921 --> 00:02:11,561 - My greatest fulfilment in life, 41 00:02:11,561 --> 00:02:15,481 when I rode at Kempton in the same race as Lester Piggott. 42 00:02:15,481 --> 00:02:18,121 I was a naive wet-behind-the-ears apprentice. 43 00:02:19,081 --> 00:02:21,481 All my years from seven, all my ambition 44 00:02:21,481 --> 00:02:26,481 is fulfilled in one moment and I eventually finished last. 45 00:02:27,121 --> 00:02:30,081 Tailed off obviously, but didn't make any difference to me. 46 00:02:30,921 --> 00:02:33,921 Just to be part of it, be with the man himself. 47 00:02:33,921 --> 00:02:34,961 - [Michael] What will you do 48 00:02:34,961 --> 00:02:36,921 if you don't make it as a jockey? 49 00:02:36,921 --> 00:02:39,881 - I don't know, if I knew I couldn't be one, 50 00:02:39,881 --> 00:02:42,801 I'd get out the game. 51 00:02:42,801 --> 00:02:44,321 Wouldn't bother. 52 00:02:44,321 --> 00:02:46,201 - [Michael] What do you think you would do then? 53 00:02:47,321 --> 00:02:48,361 - Learn taxis. 54 00:02:50,721 --> 00:02:53,561 - [Michael] At 21, he was on the Knowledge, 55 00:02:53,561 --> 00:02:57,001 and by 28, he owned his own cab. 56 00:02:57,001 --> 00:02:58,281 - We were on the way to Langans, 57 00:02:58,281 --> 00:02:59,881 and all I can hear is Alf Garnet, you know, 58 00:02:59,881 --> 00:03:03,321 and it's the Labour Government and your lot up here. 59 00:03:03,321 --> 00:03:04,601 - [Michael] Have you got a girlfriend? 60 00:03:04,601 --> 00:03:05,681 - No. 61 00:03:05,681 --> 00:03:08,241 - [Michael] Would you like to have a girlfriend? 62 00:03:08,241 --> 00:03:09,401 - No. 63 00:03:09,401 --> 00:03:10,921 You understand the Four Fs, 64 00:03:10,921 --> 00:03:13,481 find 'em, feed 'em, and forget 'em. 65 00:03:13,481 --> 00:03:16,641 The other F, I'll let you use your own discrimination. 66 00:03:16,641 --> 00:03:21,081 I mean, this one, I tried to do the three Fs, 67 00:03:21,081 --> 00:03:23,161 but I couldn't forget her. 68 00:03:23,161 --> 00:03:25,041 - I went to a discotheque. 69 00:03:26,001 --> 00:03:29,241 He was in the pub earlier on and that afterwards, 70 00:03:29,241 --> 00:03:32,041 we went to a discotheque and Tony was down there, 71 00:03:32,041 --> 00:03:35,241 and I just, from there I just, that was it. 72 00:03:36,561 --> 00:03:38,361 (Tony chuckles) 73 00:03:38,361 --> 00:03:40,921 I couldn't get rid of him. (laughs) 74 00:03:42,361 --> 00:03:45,601 - We have our ups and downs, no more than anyone else. 75 00:03:45,601 --> 00:03:48,641 - I think you got to work at a marriage. 76 00:03:48,641 --> 00:03:51,641 I think all marriages go through stages, 77 00:03:51,641 --> 00:03:54,761 you can't stand each other, you go through, you know, 78 00:03:54,761 --> 00:03:58,041 I think, "Oh God, I hate him I wish he'd get out." 79 00:03:58,041 --> 00:03:58,881 I do. 80 00:03:58,881 --> 00:03:59,961 - We've been to the edge of the cliff 81 00:03:59,961 --> 00:04:02,881 and looked over a couple of times, 82 00:04:02,881 --> 00:04:06,721 and we've always seemed to sort of go back, 83 00:04:06,721 --> 00:04:09,721 and we've sort of stayed the course, 84 00:04:09,721 --> 00:04:14,081 but I must say it's not easy being married. 85 00:04:14,081 --> 00:04:18,361 Anyone who thinks it is, I mean, it's quite difficult. 86 00:04:19,241 --> 00:04:22,681 - [Michael] In 1993, Tony and Debbie left the East End 87 00:04:22,681 --> 00:04:24,441 and moved to Woodford in Essex. 88 00:04:25,441 --> 00:04:27,441 - Well, with the help of my neighbour, 89 00:04:27,441 --> 00:04:29,841 I'm not really a do-it-yourself type of guy. 90 00:04:30,841 --> 00:04:33,041 He painted all the back of the house, 91 00:04:33,041 --> 00:04:35,201 and we were gonna put a conservatory here. 92 00:04:35,201 --> 00:04:36,881 If you look along here, 93 00:04:36,881 --> 00:04:40,201 we've put a patio in and a pond for the fish. 94 00:04:40,201 --> 00:04:43,001 - Well, when we bought it, it was very old. 95 00:04:43,001 --> 00:04:47,441 This was two rooms and we've knocked it completely out. 96 00:04:49,161 --> 00:04:52,361 Refitted a kitchen, put all new windows in, 97 00:04:52,361 --> 00:04:56,081 new flooring, literally everything really. 98 00:04:56,081 --> 00:04:56,961 Well, the fence we had a bit of luck there 99 00:04:56,961 --> 00:04:59,321 'cause the next-door neighbour, 100 00:04:59,321 --> 00:05:01,961 they paid for it and they'd done all this end. 101 00:05:01,961 --> 00:05:06,961 So I'd done, come in my favour having a small bit done. 102 00:05:07,041 --> 00:05:10,481 So, there's a blessing there, but the only thing I ever done 103 00:05:10,481 --> 00:05:13,841 was I planted them three trees, 104 00:05:13,841 --> 00:05:17,841 and they seem to have grown in the last three or four years. 105 00:05:17,841 --> 00:05:21,041 - It has cost us a lot of money to do it, yeah, 106 00:05:21,041 --> 00:05:21,921 a lot of money. 107 00:05:23,561 --> 00:05:25,561 Now, we're skint. (chuckles) 108 00:05:25,561 --> 00:05:27,321 - Well, I think we overspent about, 109 00:05:28,841 --> 00:05:31,641 oh, a colossal amount, thousands. 110 00:05:33,921 --> 00:05:36,801 My overheads to keep everything going here 111 00:05:36,801 --> 00:05:39,241 is at this present time astronomical. 112 00:05:39,241 --> 00:05:40,041 - [Michael] Are you gonna get out 113 00:05:40,041 --> 00:05:41,081 of this financial hole? 114 00:05:41,081 --> 00:05:45,881 - Yes, without question because that is this is a millstone 115 00:05:45,881 --> 00:05:47,481 around my neck at this time, 116 00:05:47,481 --> 00:05:49,681 but it's nothing what two years won't achieve 117 00:05:49,681 --> 00:05:52,801 through hard work and determination. 118 00:05:52,801 --> 00:05:55,001 - [Michael] To help out, Debbie works the day shift 119 00:05:55,001 --> 00:05:57,401 in the cab, while Tony does the night shift. 120 00:05:58,721 --> 00:05:59,961 - Son, it's hard work out there. 121 00:05:59,961 --> 00:06:01,601 - You're not reaching me yet. 122 00:06:01,601 --> 00:06:02,441 - Not getting to you. - No, you're not 123 00:06:02,441 --> 00:06:03,281 getting to me, all right? 124 00:06:03,281 --> 00:06:05,561 Now, be bigger, dominate me, all right? 125 00:06:05,561 --> 00:06:06,881 - Son! - At 28, 126 00:06:06,881 --> 00:06:09,321 Tony was taking acting lessons. 127 00:06:09,321 --> 00:06:12,721 Now, he supplements his income with TV jobs. 128 00:06:12,721 --> 00:06:13,561 - [Tony] Oi! 129 00:06:15,961 --> 00:06:16,801 - That's all I've got on me. 130 00:06:16,801 --> 00:06:18,801 - Mate, if I had a pound for every time I've heard that, 131 00:06:18,801 --> 00:06:20,201 I'd be a rich man. 132 00:06:20,201 --> 00:06:21,201 - [Rider] Got the fare, haven't you? 133 00:06:21,201 --> 00:06:22,761 - Yeah, just about. 134 00:06:24,801 --> 00:06:26,161 - [Teacher] Would everybody please sit round now 135 00:06:26,161 --> 00:06:27,721 and get on with their work. 136 00:06:27,721 --> 00:06:29,841 I don't want to see any backs to me. 137 00:06:31,681 --> 00:06:32,801 Shouldn't be anybody turning around. 138 00:06:32,801 --> 00:06:34,321 Tony, do you hear as well? 139 00:06:36,761 --> 00:06:39,281 Get on with your work in front. 140 00:06:39,281 --> 00:06:40,121 Tony. 141 00:06:41,601 --> 00:06:43,521 Don't turn around again. 142 00:06:43,521 --> 00:06:44,641 - There's only one ambition really. 143 00:06:44,641 --> 00:06:47,481 I want a baby son and if I see my baby son, 144 00:06:47,481 --> 00:06:48,961 then I'll see my ambition fulfilled. 145 00:06:48,961 --> 00:06:52,121 No one knows that, only you now. (laughs) 146 00:06:52,121 --> 00:06:54,961 (players yelling) 147 00:06:58,121 --> 00:06:58,961 (whistle blows) 148 00:06:58,961 --> 00:07:01,081 This is Hackney Marshes and the games are being played. 149 00:07:01,081 --> 00:07:02,721 Mostly these are pub sides, 150 00:07:02,721 --> 00:07:06,161 and I've been playing over here for near 28, 30 years. 151 00:07:06,161 --> 00:07:07,721 - [Michael] So, you're a veteran. 152 00:07:07,721 --> 00:07:09,241 - You might call me that, yeah. 153 00:07:11,281 --> 00:07:12,761 - [Michael] Who do you play with? 154 00:07:12,761 --> 00:07:15,001 - My Nicky and I think it's quite admirable 155 00:07:15,001 --> 00:07:17,761 that his dad's in the same side as his son. 156 00:07:20,001 --> 00:07:22,401 - [Michael] Tony and Debbie have three children. 157 00:07:22,401 --> 00:07:26,001 The eldest, Nicky works as a French polisher. 158 00:07:26,001 --> 00:07:27,321 - [Tony] I wanted him to go on the Knowledge 159 00:07:27,321 --> 00:07:28,521 and become a cabbie. 160 00:07:28,521 --> 00:07:29,361 I bought him a bike. 161 00:07:29,361 --> 00:07:31,321 But I'm quite proud of the way he's turned out. 162 00:07:31,321 --> 00:07:34,441 I mean, he's a very respectable kid. 163 00:07:34,441 --> 00:07:38,641 Very respectful towards people and most of all, 164 00:07:38,641 --> 00:07:40,321 he's done it all on his own terms. 165 00:07:41,481 --> 00:07:44,401 (players yelling) 166 00:07:44,401 --> 00:07:48,481 - [Debbie] Perry, she's just started secondary school. 167 00:07:48,481 --> 00:07:52,321 She's a character, but she's quite academic minded, 168 00:07:53,481 --> 00:07:56,201 and hopefully, you know, she'll stay on. 169 00:07:57,601 --> 00:07:58,801 - [Coach] Hey Ref, come, yeah! 170 00:07:58,801 --> 00:08:00,001 (whistle blows) 171 00:08:00,001 --> 00:08:02,201 - [Coach] Come on, let's get on with it now! 172 00:08:02,201 --> 00:08:04,081 - [Woman] Another one. 173 00:08:04,081 --> 00:08:05,641 - [Player] We got another 16 minutes left. 174 00:08:05,641 --> 00:08:09,481 (whistle blows) - Let's go! 175 00:08:09,481 --> 00:08:11,201 - There you go, straight there, to your left. 176 00:08:11,201 --> 00:08:12,241 - [Debbie] Jodi don't like school. 177 00:08:12,241 --> 00:08:13,881 She's just coming up to now 178 00:08:13,881 --> 00:08:16,561 that she'll be leaving school shortly. 179 00:08:16,561 --> 00:08:19,121 I do feel that she's wasted a lot of years 180 00:08:19,121 --> 00:08:20,561 in her secondary school. 181 00:08:21,481 --> 00:08:22,641 I'm not saying that it's the school's fault. 182 00:08:22,641 --> 00:08:23,961 - Well, come on. - Probably a lot of it 183 00:08:23,961 --> 00:08:27,521 is her own fault, but you know, and we have tried with her, 184 00:08:27,521 --> 00:08:29,161 and we have tried to push her into it. 185 00:08:29,161 --> 00:08:32,281 She's just, I think she's a bit how Tony was. 186 00:08:32,281 --> 00:08:33,921 She's just not interested in school, 187 00:08:33,921 --> 00:08:35,881 which I feel she'll regret later on. 188 00:08:36,841 --> 00:08:37,681 - Lovely. 189 00:08:38,561 --> 00:08:41,921 I mean, I try to discipline them in various areas, 190 00:08:41,921 --> 00:08:46,681 but at the end of the day, it is quite hard and difficult. 191 00:08:46,681 --> 00:08:49,121 I like to stand up and suggest, you know, 192 00:08:49,121 --> 00:08:50,081 lead with an iron fist, 193 00:08:50,081 --> 00:08:52,201 but I haven't got the heart to do it, 194 00:08:52,201 --> 00:08:54,921 and that's the truth in the matter. 195 00:08:54,921 --> 00:08:56,441 - I have to do it. 196 00:08:57,681 --> 00:09:00,601 And then if anything goes wrong, it's my fault. 197 00:09:00,601 --> 00:09:02,161 - A bird said to me the other day, 198 00:09:02,161 --> 00:09:04,001 she said, "Ain't you small?" 199 00:09:04,001 --> 00:09:06,281 So, I said, "But you're ugly, at least I can grow." 200 00:09:06,281 --> 00:09:08,121 And then I said, what can they say to that, 201 00:09:08,121 --> 00:09:10,081 they can't say nothing, can they? 202 00:09:10,081 --> 00:09:12,401 - [Michael] And why did you fall in love with him? 203 00:09:12,401 --> 00:09:14,001 - Don't know. 204 00:09:14,001 --> 00:09:16,641 - I don't know how you've put up with me for so long. 205 00:09:16,641 --> 00:09:17,481 - I don't know. 206 00:09:17,481 --> 00:09:19,441 Sometimes, I don't know how I stand him. 207 00:09:19,441 --> 00:09:21,641 - I've been in positions, you know, 208 00:09:22,881 --> 00:09:25,161 oh, it's hard to say in front of Debbie, but it's true. 209 00:09:25,161 --> 00:09:27,321 It's tempting. 210 00:09:27,321 --> 00:09:28,401 You take the bait. 211 00:09:29,361 --> 00:09:30,961 I go on holiday once a year with the boys, 212 00:09:30,961 --> 00:09:33,001 to have a fling in to Spain, Magaluf, 213 00:09:33,001 --> 00:09:35,721 and we have a golf holiday, all against Debbie's will, 214 00:09:36,561 --> 00:09:41,121 but it's true, and I get in situations out there that, 215 00:09:41,121 --> 00:09:43,161 you know, life is for living. 216 00:09:44,241 --> 00:09:45,921 And I come back, 217 00:09:45,921 --> 00:09:47,721 "Oh, I know what you've been doing out there. 218 00:09:47,721 --> 00:09:51,081 "You've been meeting all them birds and whatever," 219 00:09:51,081 --> 00:09:54,561 and they look at ya as if to say, 220 00:09:54,561 --> 00:09:56,801 "I know, but I don't want to know." 221 00:09:56,801 --> 00:09:58,041 That's how it is. 222 00:09:58,961 --> 00:10:00,801 I have often not gone through life 223 00:10:00,801 --> 00:10:04,121 with one hand tied behind my back and my character, 224 00:10:04,121 --> 00:10:06,881 happy-go-lucky nature, and I've been in positions, 225 00:10:06,881 --> 00:10:10,041 and I've found myself caught in trouble. 226 00:10:11,521 --> 00:10:13,801 I'm not proud at all to say this, 227 00:10:13,801 --> 00:10:18,801 but the situations arise that I've had regretful behaviour 228 00:10:20,361 --> 00:10:22,081 at various times but. 229 00:10:24,001 --> 00:10:27,481 - You got caught and that was it. 230 00:10:27,481 --> 00:10:30,481 - You know, I'm not lying about the fact. 231 00:10:30,481 --> 00:10:33,721 I mean, you can always cover it up and suggest other things, 232 00:10:33,721 --> 00:10:36,801 but it's, you know, true and let it be true. 233 00:10:36,801 --> 00:10:38,121 - [Michael] You caught him? 234 00:10:39,401 --> 00:10:40,281 - Yeah. 235 00:10:40,281 --> 00:10:41,601 - [Michael] What happened? 236 00:10:42,561 --> 00:10:45,761 - Well, you know, it was touch and go 237 00:10:45,761 --> 00:10:48,921 whether we carried on from it or not. 238 00:10:48,921 --> 00:10:52,761 You know, we sort of went through a very traumatic time. 239 00:10:53,641 --> 00:10:56,761 - Then again, let who's never sinned cast the first stone. 240 00:10:56,761 --> 00:10:58,241 I mean, it just doesn't happen 241 00:10:58,241 --> 00:11:00,081 with a taxi driver living in Essex. 242 00:11:00,081 --> 00:11:02,561 It happens with MPs, et cetera, et cetera. 243 00:11:02,561 --> 00:11:06,401 I mean, you know, I'm not gonna hide behind any trees 244 00:11:06,401 --> 00:11:08,921 and suggest, you know, I am holier than thou, 245 00:11:08,921 --> 00:11:10,321 which no doubt, I'm not. 246 00:11:10,321 --> 00:11:11,441 All I am suggesting is that this 247 00:11:11,441 --> 00:11:13,041 is what real life is all about. 248 00:11:13,041 --> 00:11:15,601 If I've been caught with my hand in the till, 249 00:11:15,601 --> 00:11:17,761 that's fair enough, I'll pay the consequences. 250 00:11:17,761 --> 00:11:18,961 And the consequences is, 251 00:11:18,961 --> 00:11:21,561 iron out the details and the problem with my wife 252 00:11:21,561 --> 00:11:24,561 and my marriage and hopefully eventually 253 00:11:24,561 --> 00:11:27,321 get it in the right lane and put it back on the tracks. 254 00:11:29,161 --> 00:11:30,001 You know, it's-- 255 00:11:30,001 --> 00:11:31,281 - [Michael] Why did you forgive him? 256 00:11:35,121 --> 00:11:36,681 - Because at the time, 257 00:11:39,401 --> 00:11:41,481 I felt that there was still something 258 00:11:41,481 --> 00:11:44,761 in the relationship, you know, 259 00:11:44,761 --> 00:11:48,801 and there was three children involved here as well, 260 00:11:48,801 --> 00:11:52,041 which is not easy when you've got three young children, 261 00:11:53,481 --> 00:11:56,721 and there was obviously still something between me and Tony, 262 00:11:57,961 --> 00:12:00,321 and it's not easy to walk away. 263 00:12:01,801 --> 00:12:03,561 I could have walked away. 264 00:12:03,561 --> 00:12:06,201 I felt, it's silly, but when it happened, 265 00:12:06,201 --> 00:12:09,841 I felt very strong and I could have walked away. 266 00:12:11,081 --> 00:12:15,841 It's not been easy to try again, to get over it, the hurt, 267 00:12:15,841 --> 00:12:19,641 'cause I've never done it, and I've never been unfaithful, 268 00:12:19,641 --> 00:12:22,321 and that's what I've found really hurtful, 269 00:12:23,281 --> 00:12:26,121 and I feel that I'm a good wife and I didn't deserve it. 270 00:12:26,121 --> 00:12:29,881 - All I understand is dogs, prices, girls, Knowledge, 271 00:12:29,881 --> 00:12:33,561 roads, streets, squares, and Mum and Dad in love. 272 00:12:33,561 --> 00:12:36,601 That's all I understand, that's all I want to understand. 273 00:12:36,601 --> 00:12:37,441 - [Michael] Tell me about the family. 274 00:12:37,441 --> 00:12:39,761 Are you fairly closely knit? 275 00:12:39,761 --> 00:12:41,121 - I love them all. 276 00:12:41,121 --> 00:12:41,961 There's not one that I don't love 277 00:12:41,961 --> 00:12:44,241 more than another, other than my mum obviously. 278 00:12:44,241 --> 00:12:47,681 But your mum is the root of the tree, 279 00:12:47,681 --> 00:12:48,841 you love your mum best. 280 00:12:50,201 --> 00:12:52,161 - [Michael] By the time he was 34, 281 00:12:52,161 --> 00:12:54,041 both Tony's parents had died. 282 00:12:55,401 --> 00:12:57,041 - I'm at the graveside, I'm talking to her, 283 00:12:57,041 --> 00:12:57,881 you know, of all things. 284 00:12:57,881 --> 00:13:01,041 I've got all images running through my mind saying like, 285 00:13:01,041 --> 00:13:03,201 "Tony, go downstairs, get me five weights, 286 00:13:03,201 --> 00:13:06,881 "you know, one and a penny," and I used to go in the shop, 287 00:13:06,881 --> 00:13:09,481 she used to throw the cotton in a hair curler 288 00:13:09,481 --> 00:13:13,721 over the landing and I used to tie the cigarettes 289 00:13:13,721 --> 00:13:16,641 on this bit of cotton and she used to pull 'em up, 290 00:13:17,521 --> 00:13:19,281 and you'd see her in the end, 291 00:13:19,281 --> 00:13:21,841 "Thanks, Tone see you after school, be good," 292 00:13:21,841 --> 00:13:23,401 and that's the way it was. 293 00:13:26,361 --> 00:13:31,361 Even now, I get emotionally sentimental over my mum and dad. 294 00:13:33,601 --> 00:13:36,801 It's just because I feel, 295 00:13:38,041 --> 00:13:40,081 the weekends they could have had over here 296 00:13:40,081 --> 00:13:41,561 in the later part of the life. 297 00:13:41,561 --> 00:13:44,281 It would have been nice to know 298 00:13:45,241 --> 00:13:47,881 that their last days were with me type of thing, 299 00:13:47,881 --> 00:13:49,521 but it wasn't to be. 300 00:13:50,961 --> 00:13:55,961 The poshies, "Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes," they're nuts. 301 00:13:57,721 --> 00:14:00,001 Just have to touch 'em. 302 00:14:00,001 --> 00:14:03,041 I don't want to change because if I change, 303 00:14:03,041 --> 00:14:05,881 it proves the other Tony Walker was all fake. 304 00:14:05,881 --> 00:14:07,321 (bell ringing) 305 00:14:07,321 --> 00:14:09,521 You know, I'm not trying to keep up with the Jones' 306 00:14:09,521 --> 00:14:10,641 and make myself any more 307 00:14:10,641 --> 00:14:13,241 than what I know I'm capable of doing. 308 00:14:13,241 --> 00:14:17,721 But I mean, I can only go so far, I'm only a cabbie. 309 00:14:17,721 --> 00:14:20,401 I mean, I'm not exactly a movie star, 310 00:14:20,401 --> 00:14:23,401 but I've done as well as I can go, 311 00:14:23,401 --> 00:14:26,161 and I think this is about the limitations for me now. 312 00:14:26,161 --> 00:14:27,921 So, I'm happy with what I've got. 313 00:14:28,881 --> 00:14:31,001 If anything else comes along, it's a bonus. 314 00:14:34,241 --> 00:14:38,761 - [Michael] Tell me, do you have any boyfriends, Suzi? 315 00:14:39,761 --> 00:14:41,281 - Yes. 316 00:14:41,281 --> 00:14:43,041 - [Michael] Tell me about him. 317 00:14:43,041 --> 00:14:47,881 - Well, he lives up in Scotland and he's, I think he's 13, 318 00:14:49,721 --> 00:14:52,081 and I'm rather lonely up there 319 00:14:52,081 --> 00:14:54,801 because he usually goes to school, 320 00:14:54,801 --> 00:14:58,761 but we used to play till about half past six 321 00:14:58,761 --> 00:15:01,001 when he comes home from school, 322 00:15:01,001 --> 00:15:05,121 then we go in and then he goes home to do his homework. 323 00:15:06,601 --> 00:15:08,281 - [Michael] Have you got any boyfriends, Suzi? 324 00:15:12,081 --> 00:15:15,961 What is your attitude towards marriage for yourself? 325 00:15:20,361 --> 00:15:22,201 - Well, I don't know, I haven't given it a lot of thought 326 00:15:22,201 --> 00:15:24,161 'cause I'm very, very cynical about it. 327 00:15:27,881 --> 00:15:29,281 But then, you know, you get a certain amount 328 00:15:29,281 --> 00:15:30,561 of faith restored in it when, I mean, 329 00:15:30,561 --> 00:15:34,361 I've got friends and their parents are happily married, 330 00:15:34,361 --> 00:15:36,281 and so it does put faith back into you. 331 00:15:36,281 --> 00:15:39,441 But me myself, I'm very cynical about it. 332 00:15:39,441 --> 00:15:41,601 - [Michael] When I last saw you at 21, you were nervous, 333 00:15:41,601 --> 00:15:44,241 you were chain smoking, you were uptight, 334 00:15:44,241 --> 00:15:46,921 and now you seem happy. 335 00:15:46,921 --> 00:15:49,801 What's happened to you over these last seven years? 336 00:15:51,081 --> 00:15:52,601 - I suppose, Rupert. 337 00:15:52,601 --> 00:15:53,481 (both chuckling) 338 00:15:53,481 --> 00:15:54,801 I'll give you some credit. 339 00:15:56,481 --> 00:15:57,721 - I'm now chain smoking. 340 00:16:01,561 --> 00:16:04,401 - I think you can't just walk through a marriage 341 00:16:04,401 --> 00:16:05,961 and think once you get married, 342 00:16:05,961 --> 00:16:08,921 it's all gonna be roses and everything forever. 343 00:16:10,041 --> 00:16:14,321 You know, you have, well everybody has their rows, 344 00:16:14,321 --> 00:16:16,561 but it's, we've never yet had a row 345 00:16:16,561 --> 00:16:18,521 that we haven't managed to sort out. 346 00:16:19,681 --> 00:16:21,921 It's very hard to actually say what it is 347 00:16:21,921 --> 00:16:24,201 that goes on between a couple. 348 00:16:24,201 --> 00:16:26,881 It's either there or it's not, 349 00:16:27,801 --> 00:16:29,881 and maybe we're very lucky. 350 00:16:29,881 --> 00:16:34,881 I mean, after 20 years, we still seem to have it. 351 00:16:34,921 --> 00:16:37,641 When I get married, I'd like to have two children. 352 00:16:37,641 --> 00:16:41,001 I'm not very children minded at the moment. 353 00:16:41,001 --> 00:16:42,521 I don't know if I ever will be. 354 00:16:44,401 --> 00:16:46,081 - [Michael] What do you think about them? 355 00:16:46,081 --> 00:16:48,881 - Well, I don't like babies. (chuckles) 356 00:16:48,881 --> 00:16:50,361 - [Michael] What was the biggest shocks to you 357 00:16:50,361 --> 00:16:53,641 when you suddenly were confronted with a small baby 358 00:16:53,641 --> 00:16:56,401 that you had to be responsible for? 359 00:16:56,401 --> 00:16:58,281 - Panic set in, I think, 360 00:16:58,281 --> 00:17:01,281 that I wasn't going to be able to cope. 361 00:17:01,281 --> 00:17:05,321 - [Michael] At 28, Suzi had two sons, Thomas and Oliver. 362 00:17:05,321 --> 00:17:06,641 - [Suzi] I mean, I don't think 363 00:17:06,641 --> 00:17:08,561 I'll have any more for the reason 364 00:17:08,561 --> 00:17:10,801 that I will get pleasure out of these two, 365 00:17:10,801 --> 00:17:13,321 but I can't see me going on and on and on. 366 00:17:13,321 --> 00:17:15,961 - [Michael] By 35, she had a daughter, Laura. 367 00:17:15,961 --> 00:17:18,001 - I don't want to. - Very little has changed. 368 00:17:18,001 --> 00:17:20,401 My life is probably very much the same as it was then. 369 00:17:20,401 --> 00:17:21,281 I've had another baby, 370 00:17:21,281 --> 00:17:24,561 we've moved house and that's about all. 371 00:17:25,441 --> 00:17:26,361 - [Michael] Would you like having a nanny 372 00:17:26,361 --> 00:17:28,961 to look after them, or do you want to look after them? 373 00:17:28,961 --> 00:17:31,161 - No, I want a nanny to look after them. 374 00:17:31,161 --> 00:17:33,281 (child babbling) 375 00:17:33,281 --> 00:17:38,281 I've chosen to stay home for the last 15 years 376 00:17:38,401 --> 00:17:39,801 to bring up my children 377 00:17:39,801 --> 00:17:43,241 because I wanted to be the one that did it. 378 00:17:44,281 --> 00:17:48,241 Tom is now 16 and he's his own man really now. 379 00:17:49,321 --> 00:17:52,121 He's suddenly got confidence in himself now 380 00:17:52,121 --> 00:17:55,721 and having been a very, quite a shy child, 381 00:17:55,721 --> 00:17:59,721 he's now come out of himself and he's his own person. 382 00:18:03,401 --> 00:18:05,841 Oliver's very individual, 383 00:18:07,241 --> 00:18:10,481 it's a sort of love/hate relationship Oliver and I have. 384 00:18:10,481 --> 00:18:11,961 We don't get on all the time, 385 00:18:11,961 --> 00:18:14,841 but we still come through most things. 386 00:18:14,841 --> 00:18:17,161 But it's been a hard battle for him. 387 00:18:17,161 --> 00:18:18,921 He's got learning difficulties 388 00:18:18,921 --> 00:18:23,321 and life hasn't dealt too many easy cards for him, 389 00:18:23,321 --> 00:18:25,481 and so it's a lot harder for him. 390 00:18:26,721 --> 00:18:28,881 - C-O-N-T. 391 00:18:28,881 --> 00:18:31,121 - [Suzi] Laura just seems to take life in her stride. 392 00:18:31,121 --> 00:18:33,401 I mean, she just takes it. 393 00:18:33,401 --> 00:18:35,481 I'll give an easy one, always. 394 00:18:35,481 --> 00:18:36,881 - [Laura] A-L-W-A-- 395 00:18:36,881 --> 00:18:39,841 - And she's very easy going and gets on with life. 396 00:18:39,841 --> 00:18:41,081 Equal. 397 00:18:41,081 --> 00:18:42,721 - E-Q-U. 398 00:18:44,401 --> 00:18:46,601 - Tom will be away at university whatever 399 00:18:46,601 --> 00:18:47,881 in another couple of years, 400 00:18:47,881 --> 00:18:50,321 and they'll all get on and make their own lives. 401 00:18:52,401 --> 00:18:53,321 That's all. 402 00:18:53,321 --> 00:18:56,441 The mid-40s is a crossroads for people 403 00:18:56,441 --> 00:18:57,721 'cause their lives do change, 404 00:18:57,721 --> 00:19:00,761 and I don't want to just suddenly find 405 00:19:00,761 --> 00:19:03,801 when the children have gone, I've got nothing to my life, 406 00:19:03,801 --> 00:19:05,761 I'm not very good at sitting around doing nothing. 407 00:19:05,761 --> 00:19:07,441 I have to be doing something, 408 00:19:07,441 --> 00:19:11,321 I have to have a goal or something to try and achieve. 409 00:19:11,321 --> 00:19:13,081 - [Frances] The more she went 410 00:19:13,081 --> 00:19:15,121 through the stages of bereavement, 411 00:19:15,121 --> 00:19:17,321 the bigger the space became, 412 00:19:17,321 --> 00:19:18,961 but the actual grief-- 413 00:19:18,961 --> 00:19:19,761 - Doesn't go away. 414 00:19:19,761 --> 00:19:22,761 - [Frances] Doesn't actually go away ever, but just. 415 00:19:22,761 --> 00:19:24,961 - [Suzi] I got into bereavement counselling 416 00:19:24,961 --> 00:19:26,361 about four years ago. 417 00:19:27,561 --> 00:19:28,881 - [Frances] Interestingly enough. 418 00:19:28,881 --> 00:19:32,001 - [Suzi] It can be very harrowing, it's very difficult, 419 00:19:32,001 --> 00:19:35,601 which is why all counsellors need a supervisor 420 00:19:35,601 --> 00:19:37,921 because you come out sometimes from a session 421 00:19:37,921 --> 00:19:40,681 mentally and emotionally drained. 422 00:19:40,681 --> 00:19:43,761 - 'Cause she was coming more to terms with what happened. 423 00:19:43,761 --> 00:19:45,081 - It's an extraordinary experience 424 00:19:45,081 --> 00:19:49,761 when you meet someone who is suffering terribly, 425 00:19:50,721 --> 00:19:53,921 and over the months, you see them move on. 426 00:19:53,921 --> 00:19:57,081 You see them get their life back together again. 427 00:19:57,081 --> 00:19:59,681 - [Michael] At 28, Suzi's father died. 428 00:20:00,641 --> 00:20:01,801 - It is terribly hard, 429 00:20:01,801 --> 00:20:04,961 and even now, I still can't believe my father's not here. 430 00:20:05,961 --> 00:20:08,161 It's still sinking in, I think. 431 00:20:09,801 --> 00:20:11,961 My mother had been ill before, 432 00:20:11,961 --> 00:20:13,201 but when I started the course, 433 00:20:13,201 --> 00:20:15,241 I didn't know quite how ill she was then, 434 00:20:16,361 --> 00:20:19,241 and then we'd found out she had fairly terminal cancer 435 00:20:19,241 --> 00:20:21,161 when I was halfway through the course. 436 00:20:22,521 --> 00:20:24,321 And I did wonder whether I could carry on 437 00:20:24,321 --> 00:20:27,801 'cause it was quite difficult going to the course every week 438 00:20:27,801 --> 00:20:30,401 and listening to other people, what they had gone through, 439 00:20:30,401 --> 00:20:33,761 but in a strange way, it helped me. 440 00:20:33,761 --> 00:20:34,881 - You know as well as I do 441 00:20:34,881 --> 00:20:36,881 that if you've got a complicated bereavement. 442 00:20:36,881 --> 00:20:38,401 - So, I came through the course, 443 00:20:38,401 --> 00:20:40,681 and my mother died just after that, 444 00:20:41,761 --> 00:20:44,201 but I did find it a help doing it 445 00:20:44,201 --> 00:20:45,881 'cause I'd just felt I wasn't alone. 446 00:20:45,881 --> 00:20:48,201 And I think that's the whole point 447 00:20:48,201 --> 00:20:51,281 of bereavement counselling, is that people feel very alone 448 00:20:51,281 --> 00:20:53,241 when they've lost someone very close to them, 449 00:20:53,241 --> 00:20:57,801 and a lot of people don't have someone to turn to. 450 00:20:57,801 --> 00:20:58,881 Well, with any child 451 00:20:58,881 --> 00:21:02,081 going through their parents splitting up aged 14, 452 00:21:02,081 --> 00:21:05,321 you're at a very vulnerable age and it does cut you up, 453 00:21:05,321 --> 00:21:09,121 but you know, you get over it. 454 00:21:09,121 --> 00:21:11,961 I never had a very close relationship with my parents. 455 00:21:14,121 --> 00:21:15,641 I didn't really know them very well, 456 00:21:15,641 --> 00:21:18,041 but in the last few years of her life, 457 00:21:18,041 --> 00:21:20,881 we had become closer and I think that's what I resent, 458 00:21:20,881 --> 00:21:23,761 that I lost here when I did because I was just beginning 459 00:21:23,761 --> 00:21:26,841 to really build a relationship with her. 460 00:21:28,161 --> 00:21:31,441 - [Michael] When he was 34, Rupert made a big career move. 461 00:21:33,481 --> 00:21:35,641 - I was a partner in quite a big law firm, 462 00:21:35,641 --> 00:21:39,681 and I resigned from that and set up my own company. 463 00:21:39,681 --> 00:21:42,881 I tend to specialise in refurbishing old buildings 464 00:21:42,881 --> 00:21:44,561 and converting them into offices. 465 00:21:46,361 --> 00:21:47,801 - It was a very difficult time 466 00:21:47,801 --> 00:21:50,721 when Rupert was deciding to leave. 467 00:21:50,721 --> 00:21:52,601 He's got a lot of responsibilities with all of us, 468 00:21:52,601 --> 00:21:54,361 and it's not easy just starting off on your own. 469 00:21:54,361 --> 00:21:55,521 - [Michael] Do you ever worry 470 00:21:55,521 --> 00:21:59,481 that the roof might fall in and you'll be out of this? 471 00:21:59,481 --> 00:22:02,321 - Yes, I mean it crosses my mind, 472 00:22:02,321 --> 00:22:05,081 and this last year, it's quite, you know, 473 00:22:05,081 --> 00:22:08,041 it's crossed my mind quite hard that we might, 474 00:22:08,041 --> 00:22:09,561 you know, we could lose this. 475 00:22:09,561 --> 00:22:12,441 - I've never, ever wanted to have a business 476 00:22:12,441 --> 00:22:14,401 which was dependent on losing your house, 477 00:22:14,401 --> 00:22:16,961 but I think ultimately that can always happen. 478 00:22:18,961 --> 00:22:20,361 - [Michael] The gamble paid off 479 00:22:20,361 --> 00:22:21,841 and the company's doing well. 480 00:22:25,921 --> 00:22:27,801 What sort of things do you do? 481 00:22:27,801 --> 00:22:31,081 - Ride, swim, play tennis, ping-pong. 482 00:22:33,481 --> 00:22:35,961 I might play croquet, things like that. 483 00:22:37,961 --> 00:22:40,521 (gentle music) 484 00:22:42,521 --> 00:22:45,401 I did have a privileged background, but on the other hand, 485 00:22:45,401 --> 00:22:48,401 I was sent away to boarding school very young, 486 00:22:48,401 --> 00:22:50,601 which I find very hard to cope with, 487 00:22:50,601 --> 00:22:51,921 and I'm sure my parents did it 488 00:22:51,921 --> 00:22:55,161 for what they felt was the right reason. 489 00:22:55,161 --> 00:22:56,841 I just felt rejected, 490 00:22:57,721 --> 00:23:02,721 which is why I never wanted to force that onto my children. 491 00:23:02,721 --> 00:23:05,001 - [Michael] What do you want most out of life? 492 00:23:06,401 --> 00:23:09,201 - To be happy and get on with life. 493 00:23:09,201 --> 00:23:11,281 I mean, I don't want to just sit back 494 00:23:11,281 --> 00:23:12,401 and let it all whiz past. 495 00:23:12,401 --> 00:23:14,681 You don't know how long you've got your life for. 496 00:23:16,161 --> 00:23:17,881 You could be run over by a bus tomorrow, 497 00:23:17,881 --> 00:23:20,041 so you've got to make the most of it while you've got it. 498 00:23:20,041 --> 00:23:23,081 If I could have it over again, I would change, 499 00:23:23,081 --> 00:23:28,081 I would change my life from 14 to 21. 500 00:23:28,361 --> 00:23:30,321 Those years were not good for me. 501 00:23:30,321 --> 00:23:33,841 Like any other child with divorced parents at 14, 502 00:23:33,841 --> 00:23:35,961 I felt very lost, bewildered. 503 00:23:37,361 --> 00:23:39,241 I would have made more of my education 504 00:23:39,241 --> 00:23:41,401 instead of rather throwing it away 505 00:23:41,401 --> 00:23:43,121 because I just thought I knew it all 506 00:23:43,121 --> 00:23:44,841 and didn't want to be bothered. 507 00:23:44,841 --> 00:23:47,241 But I can't turn the clock back, 508 00:23:47,241 --> 00:23:49,921 so I just have to bury that and think, "Well okay, 509 00:23:49,921 --> 00:23:54,801 "it was a time in my life that was unhappy," and move on. 510 00:23:54,801 --> 00:23:57,801 (people chattering) 511 00:23:59,241 --> 00:24:00,801 - [Michael] Two of the boys are coming 512 00:24:00,801 --> 00:24:02,921 into that period of their lives. 513 00:24:02,921 --> 00:24:04,721 Are you watchful of that for them? 514 00:24:04,721 --> 00:24:05,721 - I am watchful of that, 515 00:24:05,721 --> 00:24:09,481 but I hope they have a more stable home life 516 00:24:09,481 --> 00:24:11,321 than I had at that age, 517 00:24:11,321 --> 00:24:13,721 and I don't take for granted the home life 518 00:24:13,721 --> 00:24:16,081 that Rupert and I have tried to build for them. 519 00:24:18,521 --> 00:24:22,401 All I want is to be here long enough, 520 00:24:22,401 --> 00:24:23,761 to be fit and healthy long enough, 521 00:24:23,761 --> 00:24:27,601 to see my children grow up to be independent people. 522 00:24:27,601 --> 00:24:29,281 What I really couldn't cope with 523 00:24:29,281 --> 00:24:31,841 was if I died before they were grown up. 524 00:24:31,841 --> 00:24:35,241 It's the one thing I think every parent dreads 525 00:24:35,241 --> 00:24:36,721 is not living long enough 526 00:24:36,721 --> 00:24:39,041 to see their children into adulthood. 527 00:24:40,321 --> 00:24:41,161 Excellent! 528 00:24:43,161 --> 00:24:45,241 - [Michael] What do you think about rich people? 529 00:24:46,241 --> 00:24:50,361 - Well, not much. 530 00:24:50,361 --> 00:24:51,521 - [Michael] Tell me about them. 531 00:24:51,521 --> 00:24:53,121 - Well, they think they can do everything 532 00:24:53,121 --> 00:24:55,401 without you doing it as well. 533 00:24:56,281 --> 00:24:58,961 - [Michael] Symon was brought up in a children's home, 534 00:24:58,961 --> 00:25:00,961 the only child of a single parent. 535 00:25:02,721 --> 00:25:05,041 - Rich people, they have all different things. 536 00:25:05,041 --> 00:25:06,641 They have everything they want, 537 00:25:06,641 --> 00:25:09,121 whereas poor people, they don't have nothing 538 00:25:09,121 --> 00:25:11,681 and they know they haven't got nothing. 539 00:25:12,721 --> 00:25:13,561 And so, they know they're missing something. 540 00:25:16,681 --> 00:25:19,121 - [Michael] What are they missing? 541 00:25:19,121 --> 00:25:22,881 - Well, I'm missing a bike and a fishing rod. 542 00:25:25,201 --> 00:25:30,001 20 years ago, when I was born, 543 00:25:30,001 --> 00:25:31,761 you know an illegitimate child, 544 00:25:31,761 --> 00:25:35,801 that's something that's only whispered about, 545 00:25:35,801 --> 00:25:39,481 people felt strongly about it in those days, 546 00:25:39,481 --> 00:25:44,481 but nowadays, it's not a serious matter. 547 00:25:45,401 --> 00:25:47,281 The serious point is whether you stay 548 00:25:47,281 --> 00:25:49,481 with somebody or you leave them. 549 00:25:49,481 --> 00:25:54,481 Since 21, I've got married, had a couple of kids. 550 00:26:00,041 --> 00:26:01,161 Well, I don't think there's anybody else 551 00:26:01,161 --> 00:26:03,561 I could have ever married expect Yvonne. 552 00:26:03,561 --> 00:26:06,481 She's my life really because we're together, 553 00:26:06,481 --> 00:26:08,721 we have the children and everything. 554 00:26:11,441 --> 00:26:12,401 - [Michael] When did you decide to have the five, 555 00:26:12,401 --> 00:26:14,441 did you want to have them close together. 556 00:26:15,281 --> 00:26:18,681 - Yeah because if you separate your kids, 557 00:26:18,681 --> 00:26:20,601 you see one's 15, and one is six, 558 00:26:20,601 --> 00:26:24,201 and there's such an age gap that they could never get on. 559 00:26:25,401 --> 00:26:28,081 They never grow up together, they won't know each other. 560 00:26:30,041 --> 00:26:33,441 - [Michael] By 35, Symon and Yvonne were divorced. 561 00:26:37,441 --> 00:26:40,001 At 42, he had married Viennetta. 562 00:26:42,641 --> 00:26:44,481 - We used to go out when we were younger. 563 00:26:44,481 --> 00:26:45,881 We met in a launderette. 564 00:26:45,881 --> 00:26:46,841 (both laughing) 565 00:26:46,841 --> 00:26:47,801 - Once a week. 566 00:26:47,801 --> 00:26:50,001 - Once a week at the launderette, 567 00:26:51,641 --> 00:26:55,761 and we just sort of drifted apart and-- 568 00:26:55,761 --> 00:26:56,641 - Unfortunately. 569 00:26:58,161 --> 00:27:00,481 - And had our own lives, got married, 570 00:27:00,481 --> 00:27:05,241 and we met up again six years ago, nearly six years ago. 571 00:27:06,441 --> 00:27:07,841 (playful music) 572 00:27:07,841 --> 00:27:08,681 And then we're gonna go to the-- 573 00:27:08,681 --> 00:27:12,081 - [Michael] She already had a teenage daughter, Miriam. 574 00:27:12,081 --> 00:27:15,601 Now Symon and Viennetta have a four-year-old son, Daniel. 575 00:27:17,801 --> 00:27:21,201 Does he remind you of yourself when you were younger? 576 00:27:21,201 --> 00:27:24,081 - [Symon] Oh no, he's got far more energy than me even. 577 00:27:24,081 --> 00:27:25,521 - [Viennetta] He's a bit of both of us actually. 578 00:27:25,521 --> 00:27:27,961 He's very bright and very quick. 579 00:27:27,961 --> 00:27:28,801 Very clever. 580 00:27:29,961 --> 00:27:31,361 - [Symon] I like to know how things work, 581 00:27:31,361 --> 00:27:34,161 so, for that, yes, he is like me. 582 00:27:35,241 --> 00:27:37,081 - [Michael] Why did you call him Daniel? 583 00:27:37,081 --> 00:27:39,161 - Oh, long story. 584 00:27:40,201 --> 00:27:43,521 - It was my father's name, yeah. 585 00:27:43,521 --> 00:27:44,801 - [Michael] That's nice. 586 00:27:44,801 --> 00:27:46,921 - We decided to name him Daniel before he was born, 587 00:27:46,921 --> 00:27:48,401 didn't know it was a boy. 588 00:27:48,401 --> 00:27:51,041 - They say, "Where's your father then," 589 00:27:51,041 --> 00:27:53,241 you know, "When your mum's out at work, 590 00:27:53,241 --> 00:27:54,841 they say, "your father." 591 00:27:54,841 --> 00:27:57,921 And I just tell them I ain't got one. 592 00:28:02,401 --> 00:28:05,841 - [Michael] What effect has that had on you? 593 00:28:05,841 --> 00:28:07,921 - Well, I don't think it's had any effect on me 594 00:28:07,921 --> 00:28:12,921 'cause what you don't have you don't miss. 595 00:28:13,441 --> 00:28:15,641 I mean, it hurts me that he wasn't there, 596 00:28:15,641 --> 00:28:19,801 but at the same time, he wasn't there. 597 00:28:19,801 --> 00:28:21,881 He wasn't there for me, he wasn't there for my mum, 598 00:28:21,881 --> 00:28:25,641 so I never really wanted to see him. 599 00:28:27,281 --> 00:28:32,281 That's anger inside me but personally, I'd like to see him, 600 00:28:32,561 --> 00:28:33,801 just for curiosity's sake, 601 00:28:33,801 --> 00:28:38,401 but the anger that I've had for how many years is, 602 00:28:40,041 --> 00:28:42,481 it's been overgrown by boredom now, 603 00:28:42,481 --> 00:28:45,521 I just can't be bothered to look for him. 604 00:28:45,521 --> 00:28:47,001 (children babbling) 605 00:28:47,001 --> 00:28:48,801 Well, they've got everything. 606 00:28:48,801 --> 00:28:50,881 They've even got what I never had, so. 607 00:28:52,001 --> 00:28:52,841 - [Michael] Which is what? 608 00:28:52,841 --> 00:28:53,921 - A father, innit? 609 00:28:53,921 --> 00:28:56,441 So I mean, they've had everything. 610 00:28:56,441 --> 00:28:58,521 I've still got five children. 611 00:28:58,521 --> 00:29:02,121 I mean, they haven't really taken the break-up 612 00:29:02,121 --> 00:29:03,801 of my first marriage too well. 613 00:29:05,681 --> 00:29:09,441 I've got still to get to grips with that and get to them 614 00:29:09,441 --> 00:29:12,121 and make them understand that Daddy is still Daddy. 615 00:29:15,161 --> 00:29:17,201 - [Michael] Has that been hard? 616 00:29:17,201 --> 00:29:22,201 - It has for me because I've always been the retiring type, 617 00:29:22,361 --> 00:29:25,441 the, you know, not really taking anything on, 618 00:29:25,441 --> 00:29:30,441 but I don't really want to lose my children, any of them. 619 00:29:34,441 --> 00:29:36,961 I still want them to know that I am there for them. 620 00:29:39,041 --> 00:29:41,961 At that time, I thought maybe the two families could meet 621 00:29:41,961 --> 00:29:43,601 and everything would be all right, 622 00:29:43,601 --> 00:29:45,561 but we're not talking about a movie, 623 00:29:45,561 --> 00:29:46,601 we're talking about life, 624 00:29:46,601 --> 00:29:49,921 so things don't always work out that way. 625 00:29:49,921 --> 00:29:51,481 - It would be nice if they can just pop over 626 00:29:51,481 --> 00:29:54,241 and say, "Hello," and come in freely 627 00:29:54,241 --> 00:29:55,841 like as if they were one of the kids 628 00:29:55,841 --> 00:29:58,201 'cause other kids do, so why shouldn't they? 629 00:29:59,401 --> 00:30:04,401 - Well, before I'm old and that, enough to get a job, 630 00:30:05,321 --> 00:30:09,521 I just walk around and see what I can find. 631 00:30:09,521 --> 00:30:11,121 I was going to be a film star, 632 00:30:11,121 --> 00:30:16,121 but now I'm gonna be an electrical engineer. 633 00:30:16,641 --> 00:30:18,241 Which is more to reality really. 634 00:30:19,401 --> 00:30:22,521 - [Michael] By 21, Symon was working in the freezer room 635 00:30:22,521 --> 00:30:24,721 of Walls Sausages in London. 636 00:30:24,721 --> 00:30:27,001 How do you see the future as far as work goes? 637 00:30:28,081 --> 00:30:30,321 - Well, I know I can't stay at Walls forever. 638 00:30:30,321 --> 00:30:31,961 I mean, it's just not for me. 639 00:30:31,961 --> 00:30:35,201 I couldn't stay there for that long, my mind would go dead. 640 00:30:40,521 --> 00:30:41,361 I think if I really wanted to, 641 00:30:41,361 --> 00:30:44,961 I could learn a trade even now. 642 00:30:44,961 --> 00:30:46,641 No, I'm quite happy to stay there. 643 00:30:47,681 --> 00:30:49,041 It doesn't look like it's gonna close down, 644 00:30:49,041 --> 00:30:53,041 so I mean, better the devil you know, innit? 645 00:30:55,321 --> 00:30:57,241 - [Michael] Walls did close down 646 00:30:57,241 --> 00:30:59,441 and Symon had a number of warehouse jobs 647 00:30:59,441 --> 00:31:02,641 before he joined Yusen, an airfreight company, 648 00:31:02,641 --> 00:31:04,201 as a fork-life truck driver. 649 00:31:05,681 --> 00:31:06,561 - I mean, when I was young, 650 00:31:06,561 --> 00:31:09,761 I used to say, "Oh, I'd never work in an office, 651 00:31:09,761 --> 00:31:12,481 "all those stuffy people in a stuffy office," 652 00:31:12,481 --> 00:31:16,121 but I've done enough hard work to realise 653 00:31:16,121 --> 00:31:20,161 that I've been doing the wrong job for so long now. 654 00:31:20,161 --> 00:31:22,761 - And the brother has big eyes. 655 00:31:22,761 --> 00:31:23,721 - And he's blue. 656 00:31:24,761 --> 00:31:25,561 - Yeah. - The brother is blue. 657 00:31:25,561 --> 00:31:27,401 - Not last year, the year before, 658 00:31:27,401 --> 00:31:31,961 Symon went to do GCSE Maths, same thing as my daughter, 659 00:31:31,961 --> 00:31:34,121 and they're both swotting here, 660 00:31:34,121 --> 00:31:36,761 and Symon comes up with good grades and he passed, 661 00:31:37,961 --> 00:31:40,881 but he, you know, it's just given him a kick up the bum 662 00:31:40,881 --> 00:31:44,041 to get something in that field 'cause he's very good. 663 00:31:44,041 --> 00:31:46,841 - I'd one dream when all the world 664 00:31:46,841 --> 00:31:51,841 was on top of me and everything was, 665 00:31:52,121 --> 00:31:56,881 and I just about got out and everything flew up in the air, 666 00:31:57,761 --> 00:31:59,641 and it all landed on my head. 667 00:32:02,281 --> 00:32:04,801 - [Michael] So, are you still drawing and painting? 668 00:32:04,801 --> 00:32:06,721 - [Symon] I like to but I never really find time 669 00:32:06,721 --> 00:32:09,601 to actually sit down and set something out to do. 670 00:32:10,681 --> 00:32:14,201 It's just that this is so good, she sort of stands back and. 671 00:32:14,201 --> 00:32:15,041 - [Miriam] Yeah, exactly. 672 00:32:15,041 --> 00:32:16,961 - He does help Miriam though. 673 00:32:16,961 --> 00:32:18,241 She's doing art at A Level, 674 00:32:18,241 --> 00:32:21,081 so when she has difficulties in something, 675 00:32:21,081 --> 00:32:22,321 she says, "Symon!" 676 00:32:22,321 --> 00:32:23,801 (Symon and Viennetta laughing) 677 00:32:23,801 --> 00:32:24,961 So, he comes to the rescue at times. 678 00:32:26,161 --> 00:32:28,721 - I get it from my mum 'cause she loved art. 679 00:32:29,721 --> 00:32:32,681 Always dragging me round the galleries and whatever. 680 00:32:34,121 --> 00:32:35,761 - [Michael] Was it difficult moving from the home 681 00:32:35,761 --> 00:32:37,321 back to live with your mother? 682 00:32:37,321 --> 00:32:38,921 - Well, I find it's comfortable. 683 00:32:40,001 --> 00:32:42,601 See, I can get on well with my mother sometimes. 684 00:32:44,361 --> 00:32:47,281 Well, that's good because a lot of young children 685 00:32:47,281 --> 00:32:48,881 can't get on with their parents at all 686 00:32:48,881 --> 00:32:50,881 at this time of their life, 687 00:32:52,001 --> 00:32:54,041 but I get on pretty well with my mum now. 688 00:32:56,241 --> 00:32:58,281 - [Michael] What sort of life does your mother have? 689 00:32:58,281 --> 00:32:59,561 - Well, it seems hard. 690 00:32:59,561 --> 00:33:02,441 I means, she's always been nervous. 691 00:33:02,441 --> 00:33:04,761 She has periods of depression. 692 00:33:05,961 --> 00:33:09,321 It's made me very sort of protective towards her. 693 00:33:09,321 --> 00:33:11,361 I feel I've got to help her all the time. 694 00:33:13,681 --> 00:33:16,521 She died in 1990, she had cancer, 695 00:33:17,441 --> 00:33:22,441 and she didn't survive all the stuff they was doing to her. 696 00:33:22,561 --> 00:33:23,721 - [Michael] Was that tough? 697 00:33:25,321 --> 00:33:27,841 - Yeah, for me because there were so many things 698 00:33:27,841 --> 00:33:30,641 I never actually said to my mum 699 00:33:30,641 --> 00:33:33,561 that I would have liked to say to her. 700 00:33:37,961 --> 00:33:40,321 It's just things you think about afterwards. 701 00:33:40,321 --> 00:33:42,721 It's too late because they're not there anymore. 702 00:33:43,921 --> 00:33:46,001 - [Michael] What sort of things? 703 00:33:46,001 --> 00:33:48,201 - You know, just I love you every day, 704 00:33:48,201 --> 00:33:51,481 and I like what you're doing, 705 00:33:51,481 --> 00:33:52,881 or I don't like what you're doing. 706 00:33:52,881 --> 00:33:55,521 Just ordinary silly things, you know? 707 00:33:57,841 --> 00:34:00,881 Everybody's got to get used to knowing coloured people 708 00:34:02,201 --> 00:34:03,961 and coloured people in turn have got to get used 709 00:34:03,961 --> 00:34:06,561 to being with white people. 710 00:34:08,881 --> 00:34:11,641 'Cause if either side doesn't work properly, 711 00:34:11,641 --> 00:34:14,161 then no side'll work properly. 712 00:34:14,161 --> 00:34:16,881 They're just the same as me, aren't they? 713 00:34:16,881 --> 00:34:18,961 - [Michael] Do you think it's hard being a black man 714 00:34:18,961 --> 00:34:20,081 in English society today? 715 00:34:20,081 --> 00:34:21,601 (Symon laughs) 716 00:34:21,601 --> 00:34:23,441 - It depends what you want, dunnit? 717 00:34:23,441 --> 00:34:26,481 If you just want to live in the society, no it's not hard. 718 00:34:26,481 --> 00:34:29,881 If you want to fight the society, yes, it will be hard. 719 00:34:29,881 --> 00:34:32,721 To be honest, Michael, I have never actually taken it on. 720 00:34:33,841 --> 00:34:35,681 I've had it from both sides to be honest, 721 00:34:35,681 --> 00:34:37,521 to be fair to meself. 722 00:34:37,521 --> 00:34:40,201 I've had white say, you're black this and that. 723 00:34:40,201 --> 00:34:41,201 And I've had black people telling me, 724 00:34:41,201 --> 00:34:42,561 you're white this and that. 725 00:34:42,561 --> 00:34:47,521 So, I stopped thinking about colour a long time ago. 726 00:34:49,641 --> 00:34:50,801 - But it's still as tough out there. 727 00:34:50,801 --> 00:34:52,681 You're still fighting, 728 00:34:52,681 --> 00:34:55,401 and you're still having to push yourself. 729 00:34:55,401 --> 00:34:56,401 'Cause when you've got a job, 730 00:34:56,401 --> 00:34:58,841 you've always got to try and work harder. 731 00:34:58,841 --> 00:35:01,121 Even at school, you've got to, 732 00:35:01,121 --> 00:35:02,881 they seemed to stereotype you. 733 00:35:05,201 --> 00:35:08,721 Even when we moved in here, we had no one speak to us 734 00:35:08,721 --> 00:35:11,401 because they expect you to be having loud music 735 00:35:11,401 --> 00:35:16,401 and parties and that, but we're not all the same, you know? 736 00:35:16,601 --> 00:35:19,401 You've got good and bad in every nation, 737 00:35:19,401 --> 00:35:22,041 and you know, we're just the same as anyone else 738 00:35:22,041 --> 00:35:24,321 as far as I am concerned. 739 00:35:24,321 --> 00:35:26,161 (upbeat music) 740 00:35:26,161 --> 00:35:29,681 - Just wanna be like everyone else really. 741 00:35:30,881 --> 00:35:33,641 Nothing too marvellous. 742 00:35:33,641 --> 00:35:36,201 I feel okay, just getting on with me life, 743 00:35:36,201 --> 00:35:37,561 just sort of keeping up, 744 00:35:38,761 --> 00:35:41,401 but I know if I really wanted to, I could get on. 745 00:35:42,401 --> 00:35:44,881 It would only take a little spark in me to do it. 746 00:35:46,881 --> 00:35:49,441 - [Michael] What's the biggest influence 747 00:35:49,441 --> 00:35:50,281 Viennetta has on you? 748 00:35:50,281 --> 00:35:51,961 - I think really motivation 749 00:35:51,961 --> 00:35:55,881 because before I never really pushed myself. 750 00:35:57,721 --> 00:35:58,681 She looks after me. 751 00:36:00,121 --> 00:36:03,401 She doesn't just push me, she looks after me, you know? 752 00:36:03,401 --> 00:36:06,001 She will never let anything be wrong for me. 753 00:36:06,001 --> 00:36:08,841 She always makes sure that if I go down the road, 754 00:36:08,841 --> 00:36:09,721 I look all right. 755 00:36:10,561 --> 00:36:14,281 If I go anywhere, I look all right, you know, 756 00:36:14,281 --> 00:36:15,881 and I do the right thing, 757 00:36:17,161 --> 00:36:20,601 and it makes me feel that there's somebody out there 758 00:36:20,601 --> 00:36:23,041 that really, really wants me. 759 00:36:25,521 --> 00:36:28,561 - I read the Financial Times. 760 00:36:28,561 --> 00:36:31,281 - I read the Observer and the Times. 761 00:36:31,281 --> 00:36:33,401 - What do you like about it, John? 762 00:36:33,401 --> 00:36:36,801 - Well, I like, I usually look at the headlines 763 00:36:36,801 --> 00:36:41,401 and then read about them, about it. 764 00:36:41,401 --> 00:36:43,081 - What's the point of the programme? 765 00:36:44,681 --> 00:36:47,401 - The point of the programme is to reach a comparison. 766 00:36:47,401 --> 00:36:48,441 I don't think it is. 767 00:36:49,961 --> 00:36:52,001 We're not necessarily typical examples. 768 00:36:52,001 --> 00:36:53,241 - And I think that's what people 769 00:36:53,241 --> 00:36:54,641 seeing the programme might think. 770 00:36:54,641 --> 00:36:55,961 - Yes. - Falsely. 771 00:36:57,521 --> 00:36:59,681 - They tend to typecast us. 772 00:37:00,961 --> 00:37:03,881 - So, everything we say, they'll think, 773 00:37:03,881 --> 00:37:06,721 "Oh, that's a typical result of the public school system." 774 00:37:06,721 --> 00:37:07,561 - Yeah. 775 00:37:07,561 --> 00:37:09,001 That's one of the problems with this sort of programme, 776 00:37:09,001 --> 00:37:12,161 I don't really think that for people like us, 777 00:37:12,161 --> 00:37:14,041 unless one speaks at seven and have been very funny, 778 00:37:14,041 --> 00:37:16,561 have very much to say that's very interesting. 779 00:37:16,561 --> 00:37:19,481 'Cause I mean, we don't know very much. 780 00:37:20,401 --> 00:37:22,201 - Well, we didn't know every much when we were seven, 781 00:37:22,201 --> 00:37:23,041 but at least 782 00:37:23,041 --> 00:37:24,161 we were quite funny. - We were at least funny. 783 00:37:24,161 --> 00:37:27,001 - Yes, I agree with John. 784 00:37:27,001 --> 00:37:28,681 All we can do is say what we think, 785 00:37:28,681 --> 00:37:31,041 and if that's of interest to people, good luck to them. 786 00:37:31,041 --> 00:37:33,081 - I'm going to Charterhouse 787 00:37:34,401 --> 00:37:38,881 and after that to Trinity Hall, Cambridge. 788 00:37:39,961 --> 00:37:41,961 - [Michael] Andrew went to Charterhouse 789 00:37:41,961 --> 00:37:44,041 and Cambridge where he read Law. 790 00:37:44,881 --> 00:37:48,881 - I'd like to be a solicitor and also fairly successful. 791 00:37:50,041 --> 00:37:52,241 - [Michael] At 28, Andrew was a solicitor. 792 00:37:53,401 --> 00:37:56,161 What qualities do you think it needs to be successful? 793 00:37:57,601 --> 00:37:59,641 - Well, you have to have a legal ability 794 00:37:59,641 --> 00:38:01,281 in my business obviously, 795 00:38:01,281 --> 00:38:03,241 and you have to have a sort of bedside manner 796 00:38:03,241 --> 00:38:05,641 as far as your clients are concerned. 797 00:38:05,641 --> 00:38:07,001 It's no good being brilliant 798 00:38:07,961 --> 00:38:10,921 if you can't communicate with your clients. 799 00:38:10,921 --> 00:38:13,201 - [Michael] By 35, he had become a partner. 800 00:38:14,561 --> 00:38:16,561 - Well, I work in the corporate department 801 00:38:16,561 --> 00:38:19,241 of a large firm of solicitors in the city, 802 00:38:19,241 --> 00:38:22,841 that is, dealing with things like mergers and acquisitions, 803 00:38:22,841 --> 00:38:25,401 joint ventures, general corporate advice, 804 00:38:25,401 --> 00:38:27,921 putting deals together for clients. 805 00:38:27,921 --> 00:38:29,561 I suppose the pace has changed a bit. 806 00:38:29,561 --> 00:38:33,721 As you know with technology, people expect the work done 807 00:38:33,721 --> 00:38:35,521 much faster than they perhaps did, 808 00:38:36,481 --> 00:38:38,161 well perhaps not so much seven years ago, 809 00:38:38,161 --> 00:38:39,481 but 14 years ago. 810 00:38:40,521 --> 00:38:43,041 Our practise has got much more international 811 00:38:43,041 --> 00:38:44,321 with more business travel. 812 00:38:44,321 --> 00:38:46,321 We have offices in places 813 00:38:46,321 --> 00:38:50,561 like Sao Paulo in Brazil, Moscow, Thailand. 814 00:38:52,921 --> 00:38:54,521 - [Michael] How has that changed your life 815 00:38:54,521 --> 00:38:56,561 or your part in the company? 816 00:38:56,561 --> 00:38:57,881 - Well, it really means that you are 817 00:38:57,881 --> 00:39:00,481 under increasing pressure to produce things quickly. 818 00:39:02,961 --> 00:39:04,361 - [Michael] And how is that for you? 819 00:39:04,361 --> 00:39:06,801 - That's fine, you have to meet the pressures, 820 00:39:06,801 --> 00:39:08,241 that's what people come and see you for. 821 00:39:08,241 --> 00:39:10,641 - [Michael] What do you think about girlfriends at your age? 822 00:39:10,641 --> 00:39:12,161 Tell me what you think of girlfriends? 823 00:39:12,161 --> 00:39:14,521 - I've got one but I don't think much of her. 824 00:39:14,521 --> 00:39:16,521 They're no longer just bores 825 00:39:17,841 --> 00:39:19,801 who won't play this or something. 826 00:39:19,801 --> 00:39:23,281 - They're part of the community, and they're there. 827 00:39:23,281 --> 00:39:25,881 - And you can begin to talk to them. 828 00:39:25,881 --> 00:39:28,881 - I don't think I financially come from the same background. 829 00:39:30,641 --> 00:39:32,521 Andrew didn't go for the haughty deb, 830 00:39:32,521 --> 00:39:35,001 he went for a good Yorkshire lass, 831 00:39:35,001 --> 00:39:37,201 but I mean obviously he knew what he wanted. 832 00:39:38,641 --> 00:39:41,841 - [Michael] By the time he was 28, Andrew had married Jane. 833 00:39:43,561 --> 00:39:45,201 - I think I'm probably quite down to earth, 834 00:39:45,201 --> 00:39:49,001 and I tend to be less extravagant than maybe some women are. 835 00:39:50,881 --> 00:39:53,001 I don't go out and buy lots of expensive dresses. 836 00:39:53,001 --> 00:39:55,521 I just go out and buy one or two. (chuckles) 837 00:39:55,521 --> 00:39:58,361 - [Andrew] And even better, pay for them. 838 00:39:58,361 --> 00:39:59,481 - I suppose the most important thing that's happened 839 00:39:59,481 --> 00:40:01,721 is that we've had two children, 840 00:40:01,721 --> 00:40:03,881 one five years ago, Alexander, 841 00:40:03,881 --> 00:40:05,961 and then a couple of years later, Timothy. 842 00:40:07,521 --> 00:40:10,561 When I see the children playing together now, 843 00:40:10,561 --> 00:40:12,481 I realise how much fun they have together, 844 00:40:12,481 --> 00:40:16,601 and it's probably what I missed perhaps being an only child. 845 00:40:16,601 --> 00:40:17,801 - [Michael] What's the most difficult thing 846 00:40:17,801 --> 00:40:20,681 about keeping the marriage together? 847 00:40:20,681 --> 00:40:23,281 - I don't think it is particularly difficult actually. 848 00:40:23,281 --> 00:40:25,001 We seem to manage all right. 849 00:40:26,401 --> 00:40:27,241 Would you say? 850 00:40:27,241 --> 00:40:30,041 - I think so, we talk, don't we? 851 00:40:30,041 --> 00:40:34,361 We have a situation where we retain a babysitter once a week 852 00:40:34,361 --> 00:40:36,321 and we make a point of, if at all possible, 853 00:40:36,321 --> 00:40:39,721 that once a week, we always go out by ourselves mid-week. 854 00:40:39,721 --> 00:40:41,481 And I think that's quite important. 855 00:40:43,441 --> 00:40:46,361 - [Michael] Do you worry at all about not having a career, 856 00:40:46,361 --> 00:40:47,921 and what will happen, as I said, 857 00:40:47,921 --> 00:40:49,361 when the children leave home? 858 00:40:50,561 --> 00:40:52,401 - Well I do, but I've made that decision now, 859 00:40:52,401 --> 00:40:54,321 and I've come to terms with it. 860 00:40:55,481 --> 00:40:57,081 You know, if I'd wanted to be a career woman, 861 00:40:57,081 --> 00:40:57,921 then probably that's what I'd be, 862 00:40:57,921 --> 00:40:59,401 but I didn't want to be a career woman. 863 00:40:59,401 --> 00:41:02,761 I wanted to be a mother and to be a full-time mother. 864 00:41:06,521 --> 00:41:07,361 - [Andrew] You get a very good view 865 00:41:07,361 --> 00:41:09,521 of the Statue of Liberty now. 866 00:41:09,521 --> 00:41:10,801 - Uh-huh, can you see it? 867 00:41:11,721 --> 00:41:13,041 - [Andrew] It's our children's half-term, 868 00:41:13,041 --> 00:41:17,121 so we decided to spend a few days in New York. 869 00:41:17,121 --> 00:41:18,161 - [Jane] You go and have a look, Tim. 870 00:41:18,161 --> 00:41:20,321 - [Andrew] I come here from time to time on my work, 871 00:41:20,321 --> 00:41:22,801 but it's usually very rushed. 872 00:41:22,801 --> 00:41:23,841 But we thought it would be rather nice 873 00:41:23,841 --> 00:41:25,641 to bring them with us. 874 00:41:25,641 --> 00:41:26,481 - Smile. 875 00:41:28,121 --> 00:41:31,401 - I think it's not a bad idea to pay for schools 876 00:41:31,401 --> 00:41:36,241 because if we didn't, schools would be so nasty and crowded. 877 00:41:36,241 --> 00:41:38,241 - Yes. - So do I think so. 878 00:41:38,241 --> 00:41:39,681 - Yes. - And the people 879 00:41:39,681 --> 00:41:41,721 in the schools. 880 00:41:41,721 --> 00:41:43,641 - And the poor people would come rushing in. 881 00:41:43,641 --> 00:41:46,081 - The man in charge of the school 882 00:41:46,081 --> 00:41:49,401 would get very angry because-- 883 00:41:49,401 --> 00:41:52,441 - And he'd get bankrupt once more. 884 00:41:52,441 --> 00:41:54,761 - He wouldn't be able to pay all the masters 885 00:41:54,761 --> 00:41:56,721 if he didn't get any money. 886 00:41:56,721 --> 00:41:58,361 - An education is very important. 887 00:41:59,841 --> 00:42:00,881 I mean, you can never be sure 888 00:42:00,881 --> 00:42:04,721 of leaving your children any worldly goods, 889 00:42:04,721 --> 00:42:06,201 but at least you can be sure 890 00:42:06,201 --> 00:42:08,681 that once you've given them a good education, 891 00:42:08,681 --> 00:42:10,841 that's something that no one can take away. 892 00:42:13,361 --> 00:42:16,321 Well, Alexander is coming up into his teens, 893 00:42:16,321 --> 00:42:18,401 and he'll be sitting common entrance 894 00:42:18,401 --> 00:42:22,081 to go to his next school later in the year, 895 00:42:22,081 --> 00:42:23,761 which will be a boarding school. 896 00:42:24,881 --> 00:42:28,121 In fact, he's down to go to the same school as I went to. 897 00:42:29,721 --> 00:42:32,801 Timothy is continuing where he is now for a while 898 00:42:32,801 --> 00:42:35,121 and perhaps be going through the same procedure. 899 00:42:36,641 --> 00:42:40,241 Well, I think boarding makes you feel self-sufficient 900 00:42:42,601 --> 00:42:44,721 and also, it teaches you to be away from your parents 901 00:42:44,721 --> 00:42:48,081 and to live with people for a long time. 902 00:42:48,081 --> 00:42:50,081 - It's going to seem very, very strange, 903 00:42:52,001 --> 00:42:53,721 but if it's what he wants to do 904 00:42:53,721 --> 00:42:57,361 and if it helps him to get where he wants to go, 905 00:42:57,361 --> 00:43:00,201 then I'm prepared to only see him every three weeks. 906 00:43:01,641 --> 00:43:03,241 - Once I had to talk to Greville, 907 00:43:03,241 --> 00:43:08,241 he was in my house and I asked Sir 908 00:43:08,721 --> 00:43:10,801 if he could put him out of my house 909 00:43:10,801 --> 00:43:13,081 because he was always getting minuses. 910 00:43:16,601 --> 00:43:17,961 It think it's become much more competitive 911 00:43:17,961 --> 00:43:19,201 for children nowadays. 912 00:43:20,521 --> 00:43:23,081 I don't really remember much about my early childhood, 913 00:43:23,081 --> 00:43:27,561 but I feel that they are under more pressure to perform now. 914 00:43:27,561 --> 00:43:31,401 (singing in foreign language) 915 00:43:32,361 --> 00:43:35,081 You know, you look back at us at the age of seven, 916 00:43:35,081 --> 00:43:36,801 saying we're going to this school, 917 00:43:36,801 --> 00:43:38,521 that university and so on. 918 00:43:38,521 --> 00:43:39,801 But there have been many places 919 00:43:39,801 --> 00:43:41,441 where one could have gone wrong. 920 00:43:41,441 --> 00:43:42,881 Just because you have the opportunities, 921 00:43:42,881 --> 00:43:45,401 it doesn't mean that you necessarily are gonna pull through. 922 00:43:47,401 --> 00:43:49,641 - [Michael] Where might you have gone wrong do you think? 923 00:43:49,641 --> 00:43:52,321 - Well, one could have given up on university, 924 00:43:52,321 --> 00:43:55,481 one could have found the pressures of work too much. 925 00:43:57,161 --> 00:44:00,001 One could have found the pressures of marriage too much, 926 00:44:00,001 --> 00:44:01,641 all sorts of things can go wrong. 927 00:44:02,881 --> 00:44:04,481 - [Michael] And what is it in you do you think 928 00:44:04,481 --> 00:44:05,841 that's pulled you through? 929 00:44:08,481 --> 00:44:10,761 - Well, I suppose it's just being persistent. 930 00:44:11,801 --> 00:44:13,121 I don't like giving up, 931 00:44:16,121 --> 00:44:20,281 and perhaps it's also not being too adventurous, 932 00:44:20,281 --> 00:44:22,721 not wanting to do anything else, once you start, you know. 933 00:44:22,721 --> 00:44:25,161 I've been in my job for 20 years. 934 00:44:25,161 --> 00:44:28,281 I haven't really wanted to do anything else. 935 00:44:28,281 --> 00:44:32,921 - When I leave this school, I'm going to Collett Court, 936 00:44:35,561 --> 00:44:38,321 and then I will be going to Westminster Boarding School 937 00:44:38,321 --> 00:44:39,721 if I pass the exam. 938 00:44:41,361 --> 00:44:46,361 And then we think I'm going to Cambridge in Trinity Hall. 939 00:44:46,601 --> 00:44:47,441 - And then it just presents itself. 940 00:44:47,441 --> 00:44:49,641 (light piano music) 941 00:44:49,641 --> 00:44:50,801 - Half, three. 942 00:44:54,001 --> 00:44:56,201 - [Michael] John went to Westminster School. 943 00:44:56,201 --> 00:44:58,761 He went on to read Law at Christchurch, Oxford. 944 00:45:02,761 --> 00:45:04,521 - I do believe parents have a right 945 00:45:04,521 --> 00:45:07,001 to educate their children as they think fit, 946 00:45:07,001 --> 00:45:10,561 and I think someone who works on the assembly line 947 00:45:10,561 --> 00:45:13,441 in some of these car factories earning huge wage 948 00:45:13,441 --> 00:45:15,361 could well afford to send their children 949 00:45:15,361 --> 00:45:17,201 to private school if they wanted to. 950 00:45:18,521 --> 00:45:21,561 - [Michael] At 21, we asked him what career he would pursue. 951 00:45:22,681 --> 00:45:23,761 - Might be at the Bar. 952 00:45:25,841 --> 00:45:27,001 - [Michael] Doing what? 953 00:45:28,201 --> 00:45:29,921 - Perhaps Chancery practise. 954 00:45:29,921 --> 00:45:32,161 - I now have a career, I'm a barrister. 955 00:45:33,881 --> 00:45:37,281 Other than that, life chugs along in varying degrees. 956 00:45:37,281 --> 00:45:38,881 When boys go around with girls, 957 00:45:38,881 --> 00:45:41,441 they don't pay attention to what they're doing. 958 00:45:41,441 --> 00:45:45,481 Yes, my grandmother had an accident because a boyfriend 959 00:45:45,481 --> 00:45:48,161 was kissing his girlfriend in the street. 960 00:45:49,481 --> 00:45:51,241 - [Michael] John married Claire, 961 00:45:51,241 --> 00:45:53,761 the daughter of a former ambassador to Bulgaria. 962 00:45:54,641 --> 00:45:55,961 (peaceful music) 963 00:45:55,961 --> 00:45:59,521 He has a very successful career at the Bar is now a QC. 964 00:46:00,761 --> 00:46:03,361 He decided not to take part in this film. 965 00:46:04,881 --> 00:46:08,921 - When I leave school, I'm going to the Dragon School, 966 00:46:08,921 --> 00:46:13,361 I might and Mummy's, and I might go to, 967 00:46:13,361 --> 00:46:16,241 after, I might go to Charterhouse Marlborough. 968 00:46:21,921 --> 00:46:24,481 I can't remember all other the places 969 00:46:24,481 --> 00:46:28,561 because Mummy's got so many, but there's some of them. 970 00:46:28,561 --> 00:46:30,561 - [Michael] What about university, Charles? 971 00:46:30,561 --> 00:46:32,241 - I might go to Oxford. 972 00:46:34,161 --> 00:46:35,721 - [Michael] Charles went to Marlborough, 973 00:46:35,721 --> 00:46:37,081 but he didn't go to Oxford. 974 00:46:37,081 --> 00:46:38,161 - In fact. - Instead he went 975 00:46:38,161 --> 00:46:39,481 to Durham University. 976 00:46:40,561 --> 00:46:44,241 - I'd say I'm pleased I didn't because it's very much 977 00:46:44,241 --> 00:46:49,241 a sort of set from Marlborough Prep School, 978 00:46:51,801 --> 00:46:54,601 Marlborough Oxbridge conveyor belt. 979 00:46:56,001 --> 00:46:58,161 Shoved out at the end. 980 00:46:58,161 --> 00:47:00,401 - [Michael] And what did Charles want to do? 981 00:47:00,401 --> 00:47:05,401 - Hard to say, probably scribbling away in some basement 982 00:47:05,521 --> 00:47:08,241 for some London newspaper or something. 983 00:47:09,601 --> 00:47:11,161 - [Michael] Charles did scribble away 984 00:47:11,161 --> 00:47:12,841 for an East London newspaper. 985 00:47:13,921 --> 00:47:16,881 He then moved onto the BBC where he became a producer. 986 00:47:19,321 --> 00:47:22,881 He's now Editor of Science Documentaries at Channel 4. 987 00:47:24,161 --> 00:47:27,041 He decided not to take part in this documentary. 988 00:47:30,121 --> 00:47:31,241 - When I grow up, 989 00:47:31,241 --> 00:47:35,801 I'd like to find out all about the moon and all that. 990 00:47:37,321 --> 00:47:39,241 - [Michael] Nick, a farmer's son, 991 00:47:39,241 --> 00:47:40,721 grew up in the Yorkshire Dales. 992 00:47:40,721 --> 00:47:43,201 - I said I was interested in physics and chemistry. 993 00:47:43,201 --> 00:47:45,441 Well, I'm not gonna do that here. 994 00:47:45,441 --> 00:47:47,561 - [Michael] At 14, he was at away at boarding school, 995 00:47:47,561 --> 00:47:50,481 and at 21, reading physics at Oxford. 996 00:47:50,481 --> 00:47:52,561 So, what career are you gonna pursue? 997 00:47:52,561 --> 00:47:54,401 - It depends whether I'll be good enough 998 00:47:54,401 --> 00:47:56,281 to do what I want to really do. 999 00:47:57,721 --> 00:48:02,201 I would like if I can to do research. 1000 00:48:02,201 --> 00:48:04,961 The gas in these experiments is at a temperature 1001 00:48:04,961 --> 00:48:07,721 comparable with that of the sun, whereas in a power reactor, 1002 00:48:07,721 --> 00:48:10,561 it would be maybe 10 times the temperature of the sun, 1003 00:48:10,561 --> 00:48:14,241 and we're trying to induce that gas to fuse. 1004 00:48:15,081 --> 00:48:17,561 - [Michael] By 28, he had moved to America 1005 00:48:17,561 --> 00:48:19,681 and was doing research into nuclear fusion 1006 00:48:19,681 --> 00:48:22,121 at the University of Wisconsin. 1007 00:48:22,121 --> 00:48:25,521 By 35, he was an associate professor there. 1008 00:48:25,521 --> 00:48:27,921 - The first one is basically saying 1009 00:48:27,921 --> 00:48:30,081 that the rate of change of crystal momentum, 1010 00:48:30,081 --> 00:48:33,521 it's DDT at this quality H bar K. 1011 00:48:33,521 --> 00:48:36,321 That is equal to the Laurent's Force. 1012 00:48:36,321 --> 00:48:39,361 So, if you work out the density in any cell. 1013 00:48:40,321 --> 00:48:41,961 In addition to now being a full professor, 1014 00:48:41,961 --> 00:48:44,041 I've been doing some administrative jobs. 1015 00:48:44,041 --> 00:48:45,961 I've been associate chair of my department, 1016 00:48:45,961 --> 00:48:48,721 which means I've run the graduate programme in my department, 1017 00:48:48,721 --> 00:48:50,241 which is the Electrical Engineering department. 1018 00:48:50,241 --> 00:48:51,961 I've been running admissions 1019 00:48:51,961 --> 00:48:56,961 and dealing with student problems 1020 00:48:57,121 --> 00:48:59,921 and some for the graduate programme. 1021 00:48:59,921 --> 00:49:01,881 And I've spent the last year and a half 1022 00:49:01,881 --> 00:49:02,961 writing a couple of books. 1023 00:49:02,961 --> 00:49:05,481 One about this business of using plasmas 1024 00:49:05,481 --> 00:49:07,241 to process semi-conductors, 1025 00:49:07,241 --> 00:49:09,161 and there is another one that was about semi-conductors. 1026 00:49:09,161 --> 00:49:10,921 It's called "Semi-conductor Devises," 1027 00:49:10,921 --> 00:49:14,441 and it's got a subtitle, "A Simulation Approach." 1028 00:49:14,441 --> 00:49:15,801 - [Michael] Do you have a girlfriend? 1029 00:49:18,081 --> 00:49:19,281 (Nick chuckles) 1030 00:49:19,281 --> 00:49:21,881 - I don't want to answer that. 1031 00:49:21,881 --> 00:49:26,161 I don't answer those kind of questions. 1032 00:49:27,481 --> 00:49:28,481 I thought that one would come up 1033 00:49:28,481 --> 00:49:32,281 because when I was, when I was going on the other one, 1034 00:49:32,281 --> 00:49:34,641 somebody said, "What do you think about girls," 1035 00:49:34,641 --> 00:49:35,921 and I said, "I don't answer questions like that." 1036 00:49:35,921 --> 00:49:37,881 Is that the reason you're asking it? 1037 00:49:38,841 --> 00:49:39,801 Yeah, I thought so. 1038 00:49:43,121 --> 00:49:44,721 The best answer would be to say 1039 00:49:44,721 --> 00:49:46,601 that I don't answer questions like that, 1040 00:49:46,601 --> 00:49:49,681 but you know, it's what I said when I was seven, 1041 00:49:49,681 --> 00:49:51,521 and it's still the most sensible, 1042 00:49:51,521 --> 00:49:53,961 but I mean, what about them? 1043 00:49:53,961 --> 00:49:56,081 - Nick was only 17 when I first met him, 1044 00:49:56,961 --> 00:50:00,001 and I knew he was a nice person. 1045 00:50:00,001 --> 00:50:05,001 I find him very attractive and he uses his intelligence 1046 00:50:05,841 --> 00:50:09,321 in his relationship with me which is very important. 1047 00:50:09,321 --> 00:50:10,641 - [Michael] His English-born wife Jackie 1048 00:50:10,641 --> 00:50:13,081 is a professor of journalism at the university. 1049 00:50:13,081 --> 00:50:15,441 They have an eight-year-old son. 1050 00:50:15,441 --> 00:50:17,201 - [Michael] Why only one child? 1051 00:50:17,201 --> 00:50:19,561 - (laughs) Well, there's a couple of reasons, 1052 00:50:19,561 --> 00:50:23,761 one is that these silly jobs we have 1053 00:50:23,761 --> 00:50:26,481 demand such an amount of time 1054 00:50:26,481 --> 00:50:30,201 and such a commitment that it's hard to fit in one. 1055 00:50:30,201 --> 00:50:32,401 Also, he's such a lively person 1056 00:50:32,401 --> 00:50:34,001 and he demands such a lot of attention 1057 00:50:34,001 --> 00:50:37,321 that he makes it hard to find time for another. 1058 00:50:37,321 --> 00:50:39,561 So, I think that's the main reason. 1059 00:50:39,561 --> 00:50:40,641 - [Michael] So, you don't want another one? 1060 00:50:40,641 --> 00:50:42,161 - Oh yes, no, I would love to. 1061 00:50:42,161 --> 00:50:44,801 I would dearly love to have another one actually. 1062 00:50:44,801 --> 00:50:47,601 No that's, don't go away with that impression. 1063 00:50:47,601 --> 00:50:50,161 No, I absolutely adore children. 1064 00:50:50,161 --> 00:50:54,201 If I can change the world, I'd change it into a diamond. 1065 00:50:54,201 --> 00:50:55,721 I don't really think that I've done anything 1066 00:50:55,721 --> 00:50:57,801 you could call a great success. 1067 00:50:57,801 --> 00:51:02,161 I mean, it would seem really ridiculous 1068 00:51:02,161 --> 00:51:04,561 to any of my friends who watch this if I said, 1069 00:51:04,561 --> 00:51:06,961 "Christ, aren't I a great success, look at me." 1070 00:51:06,961 --> 00:51:07,841 - When I first met you, 1071 00:51:07,841 --> 00:51:11,001 I remember I thought this was very idealistic, 1072 00:51:11,001 --> 00:51:12,201 but it was rather interesting, 1073 00:51:12,201 --> 00:51:14,121 when I asked you why are you working on fusion, 1074 00:51:14,121 --> 00:51:15,881 you said you wanted to save the world. 1075 00:51:15,881 --> 00:51:18,001 I think that's a bit embarrassing now, 1076 00:51:18,001 --> 00:51:19,921 but I don't think you'd feel the same way 1077 00:51:19,921 --> 00:51:23,081 about something that you didn't feel mattered. 1078 00:51:23,081 --> 00:51:27,161 - I always wanted to have an impact, 1079 00:51:27,161 --> 00:51:28,401 to do something useful 1080 00:51:28,401 --> 00:51:30,081 that was actually going to benefit people. 1081 00:51:30,081 --> 00:51:34,201 I had this vision of people in ivory towers being cut off, 1082 00:51:34,201 --> 00:51:35,321 doing stuff all their lives 1083 00:51:35,321 --> 00:51:37,201 and having no effect on anybody whatsoever, 1084 00:51:37,201 --> 00:51:39,441 and that was absolutely not what I wanted to do, 1085 00:51:39,441 --> 00:51:41,521 and so I chose to go into this fusion business 1086 00:51:41,521 --> 00:51:44,161 'cause I thought this would have a huge impact. 1087 00:51:44,161 --> 00:51:45,761 - Plasma's supposed to fill that volume. 1088 00:51:45,761 --> 00:51:48,081 - I'm not expecting to be reported 1089 00:51:48,081 --> 00:51:50,361 in newspaper headlines any time soon. 1090 00:51:51,241 --> 00:51:53,161 That's not the limit of my ambition, 1091 00:51:53,161 --> 00:51:56,681 but it's just trying to be realistic. 1092 00:51:56,681 --> 00:51:57,841 I'm just gonna have to try 1093 00:51:57,841 --> 00:52:01,401 and settle for reasonably small victories. 1094 00:52:01,401 --> 00:52:04,121 They'd like to come out for a holiday 1095 00:52:04,121 --> 00:52:06,201 in the country when we'd like, 1096 00:52:06,201 --> 00:52:09,561 when I'd like to have a holiday in the town. 1097 00:52:09,561 --> 00:52:11,081 - [Michael] Do you get lonely here? 1098 00:52:12,081 --> 00:52:15,001 - You just tend to get stuck into your everyday routine, 1099 00:52:15,001 --> 00:52:18,721 and you don't think about it, but when you call home, 1100 00:52:18,721 --> 00:52:21,241 then you realise how far away you are, 1101 00:52:21,241 --> 00:52:23,921 and now it seems acute 1102 00:52:23,921 --> 00:52:26,681 because both our families are getting older, 1103 00:52:27,761 --> 00:52:30,481 even if you think in terms of seeing them 1104 00:52:30,481 --> 00:52:32,241 once every two years. 1105 00:52:33,081 --> 00:52:34,041 - That's not so many times. - You're thinking only 1106 00:52:34,041 --> 00:52:36,961 about 10 times and that's awful. 1107 00:52:38,841 --> 00:52:41,401 - [Michael] This year, Nick went back to the Dales 1108 00:52:41,401 --> 00:52:42,481 to see his family. 1109 00:52:42,481 --> 00:52:44,961 It's been five years since I've been back here. 1110 00:52:46,481 --> 00:52:47,321 It's changed quite a lot. 1111 00:52:47,321 --> 00:52:52,321 It's got more touristy and less like a region that's farmed. 1112 00:52:52,441 --> 00:52:55,401 Every second house seems to be a hotel at the moment. 1113 00:52:55,401 --> 00:52:56,321 - This is the old pippin. 1114 00:52:56,321 --> 00:52:57,961 - Well, it's been rotten for my dad 1115 00:52:57,961 --> 00:53:00,961 because he's been unable to walk a lot of the time. 1116 00:53:00,961 --> 00:53:03,681 He'd had terrible troubles with his legs, 1117 00:53:03,681 --> 00:53:06,041 and of course, farming's in a miserable shape, 1118 00:53:06,041 --> 00:53:11,041 so he's retiring, and the stock have been sold. 1119 00:53:11,161 --> 00:53:12,521 Yes, I think he'd had a very hard life. 1120 00:53:12,521 --> 00:53:17,521 He's had to work enormous hours every day of his life 1121 00:53:17,801 --> 00:53:20,401 doing something that ultimately isn't going to work. 1122 00:53:22,961 --> 00:53:24,401 - [Michael] Do you want to take up farming? 1123 00:53:24,401 --> 00:53:25,241 - No. 1124 00:53:26,641 --> 00:53:28,721 I'm not interested in it. 1125 00:53:29,761 --> 00:53:31,481 My youngest brother, the deaf one, 1126 00:53:31,481 --> 00:53:32,321 if he can't do anything else, 1127 00:53:32,321 --> 00:53:36,241 he can probably run the farm if he can't, as a last resort. 1128 00:53:42,801 --> 00:53:45,361 - [Michael] So, your brothers won't take over on the farm? 1129 00:53:45,361 --> 00:53:46,561 - Absolutely not, no. 1130 00:53:46,561 --> 00:53:48,961 Neither of them really wanted to, I don't think. 1131 00:53:50,121 --> 00:53:51,881 Andrew's a newspaper reporter. 1132 00:53:51,881 --> 00:53:55,561 He's I think about to take a job near York. 1133 00:53:56,521 --> 00:53:58,321 He's gonna need a base over there. 1134 00:53:58,321 --> 00:53:59,681 He can't commute from here. 1135 00:54:01,441 --> 00:54:03,481 Well, Christopher's married, which is great. 1136 00:54:03,481 --> 00:54:07,761 He has a very nice wife who is getting better and better 1137 00:54:07,761 --> 00:54:12,761 at communicating with the deaf and he works in Skipton. 1138 00:54:12,961 --> 00:54:15,321 He's taking some courses in computers. 1139 00:54:15,321 --> 00:54:17,841 I'm not actually sure what, but he always says to me 1140 00:54:17,841 --> 00:54:19,841 that I do computers and I think that it's a good idea 1141 00:54:19,841 --> 00:54:22,161 that he does computers and I do. 1142 00:54:22,161 --> 00:54:24,481 So, I try to encourage him. 1143 00:54:24,481 --> 00:54:25,481 - [Michael] So, you're all away, 1144 00:54:25,481 --> 00:54:27,521 so the Hitchons are finished here? 1145 00:54:27,521 --> 00:54:30,161 - Yes, the Hitchons are certainly 1146 00:54:30,161 --> 00:54:33,161 largely uprooted from here, aren't they? 1147 00:54:33,161 --> 00:54:38,161 (dog barking) (cows mooing) 1148 00:54:39,881 --> 00:54:44,641 I'm the only child in the village 1149 00:54:44,641 --> 00:54:46,081 except for my baby brother. 1150 00:54:49,481 --> 00:54:50,961 Well, this is Arncliffe School, 1151 00:54:50,961 --> 00:54:53,681 which is where my brother and I went to school 1152 00:54:53,681 --> 00:54:56,081 from age five to 10. 1153 00:54:56,081 --> 00:54:57,241 And there's the church 1154 00:54:57,241 --> 00:54:59,401 where we were all christened and everything. 1155 00:55:00,441 --> 00:55:03,441 We used to go to harvest festivals and things there. 1156 00:55:04,961 --> 00:55:05,961 - [Michael] What did you learn here do you think 1157 00:55:05,961 --> 00:55:08,081 that you carried with you? 1158 00:55:08,081 --> 00:55:09,721 - Well, you just look at this place. 1159 00:55:09,721 --> 00:55:12,001 I mean, it's utterly beautiful 1160 00:55:12,001 --> 00:55:14,721 but not beautiful in the pretty cutesy way. 1161 00:55:14,721 --> 00:55:19,721 I think of it as being magnificent but rather grim really. 1162 00:55:20,081 --> 00:55:23,641 I sort of feel as if you could look deep inside me, 1163 00:55:23,641 --> 00:55:27,001 I feel like there's some of this in there somewhere, 1164 00:55:27,001 --> 00:55:29,921 and it's rather dower but just wonderful. 1165 00:55:31,961 --> 00:55:35,481 It's very uncompromising, and sometimes it's rather tragic, 1166 00:55:35,481 --> 00:55:39,361 but it makes other places you go 1167 00:55:39,361 --> 00:55:41,201 seem rather trivial as well. 1168 00:55:42,201 --> 00:55:45,521 I'm just enormously proud of having come from here. 1169 00:55:45,521 --> 00:55:48,881 The people are, the idea of being a Dales person 1170 00:55:48,881 --> 00:55:51,041 is really terribly important to me. 1171 00:55:52,241 --> 00:55:55,081 What you see that's so magnificent 1172 00:55:55,081 --> 00:55:58,121 are the clouds sweeping by all the time, 1173 00:55:58,121 --> 00:56:02,721 air and cloud and water continually sweeping over you. 1174 00:56:02,721 --> 00:56:04,561 I mean, there's a poetic side to that, 1175 00:56:04,561 --> 00:56:06,441 and I would be looking at these and thinking, 1176 00:56:06,441 --> 00:56:09,241 "Now, how does a cloud work?" 1177 00:56:09,241 --> 00:56:10,521 And when you come down to it, 1178 00:56:10,521 --> 00:56:14,881 what I do when I try to solve equations, 1179 00:56:14,881 --> 00:56:17,441 it's the same equations that describe clouds 1180 00:56:17,441 --> 00:56:19,521 and water and air flowing around. 1181 00:56:20,401 --> 00:56:23,121 From a scientific point of view, 1182 00:56:23,121 --> 00:56:26,601 I relate back to this sort of thing. 1183 00:56:26,601 --> 00:56:29,081 - So, this is a sign, there's ESAs, there's LFAs. 1184 00:56:31,361 --> 00:56:33,161 - [Michael] It's hard being away from your roots, isn't it? 1185 00:56:33,161 --> 00:56:34,561 - Terribly hard. 1186 00:56:34,561 --> 00:56:36,721 It's hard in lots and lots of ways. 1187 00:56:36,721 --> 00:56:38,801 I mean, if you go to an alien culture, 1188 00:56:38,801 --> 00:56:41,081 you don't know what's going on around you half the time. 1189 00:56:41,081 --> 00:56:42,961 It's really strange to go to a different country, 1190 00:56:42,961 --> 00:56:45,521 people don't send out the same signals. 1191 00:56:45,521 --> 00:56:48,081 I could try that. - Even if it's frightening. 1192 00:56:48,081 --> 00:56:49,721 (all chattering) 1193 00:56:49,721 --> 00:56:53,961 - It's very hard to imagine being able to come back here, 1194 00:56:53,961 --> 00:56:56,121 and I think about it a lot, 1195 00:56:57,641 --> 00:57:00,281 but I haven't seen the way to do it yet. 1196 00:57:02,041 --> 00:57:02,961 (cows mooing) 1197 00:57:02,961 --> 00:57:04,281 (dog barking) 1198 00:57:04,281 --> 00:57:07,321 In some sense, it never really belonged to me. 1199 00:57:07,321 --> 00:57:10,041 I mean, part of me would love to own a stake in it, 1200 00:57:10,041 --> 00:57:12,161 but I really don't own any of it. 1201 00:57:12,161 --> 00:57:15,121 But the other thing is that I've had to move out of here, 1202 00:57:15,121 --> 00:57:18,081 and I think that the way the world is, 1203 00:57:18,081 --> 00:57:21,161 it's very hard to stay in one place. 1204 00:57:21,161 --> 00:57:23,721 People are forced to move constantly. 1205 00:57:23,721 --> 00:57:26,441 The history of this century has a lot of examples 1206 00:57:26,441 --> 00:57:29,401 where people moved or should have moved 1207 00:57:29,401 --> 00:57:33,161 and professionally and in lots of other ways, 1208 00:57:33,161 --> 00:57:36,361 it's really important that people are always thinking 1209 00:57:36,361 --> 00:57:38,681 about what's happening around them 1210 00:57:38,681 --> 00:57:40,721 and how they have to react to it. 1211 00:57:41,841 --> 00:57:44,641 Beauty's transient, so maybe we can come by here 1212 00:57:44,641 --> 00:57:49,321 and visit it, but unfortunately, 1213 00:57:49,321 --> 00:57:52,001 I'm not gonna be permitted to be here very much. 1214 00:57:53,121 --> 00:57:55,961 (children screaming happily) 1215 00:57:55,961 --> 00:57:58,241 - [Michael] And what about all the other children? 1216 00:57:58,241 --> 00:57:59,481 What's happened to them? 1217 00:58:00,801 --> 00:58:05,801 - Well, I'll go in to Africa and try and teach people 1218 00:58:05,841 --> 00:58:10,841 who are not civilised to be more or less good. 1219 00:58:11,641 --> 00:58:13,841 - I'm going to work in Woolworths. 1220 00:58:13,841 --> 00:58:15,641 - What would you do if you'd lots of money, 1221 00:58:15,641 --> 00:58:18,361 about maybe two pounds? 1222 00:58:18,361 --> 00:58:21,961 - I would buy meself a new nice house, wouldn't I? 1223 00:58:21,961 --> 00:58:24,121 - What does university mean? 1224 00:58:24,121 --> 00:58:26,561 - When I grow up, I want to be an astronaut, 1225 00:58:26,561 --> 00:58:28,641 but if I can't be an astronaut, 1226 00:58:28,641 --> 00:58:30,601 I think I'll be a coach driver. 1227 00:58:31,601 --> 00:58:34,321 Well, I'm going to take people to the country 1228 00:58:34,321 --> 00:58:36,681 and sometimes take them to the seaside. 1229 00:58:38,001 --> 00:58:40,361 - [Michael] Is Neil still homeless? 1230 00:58:40,361 --> 00:58:41,881 We'll find out tomorrow. 1231 00:58:44,561 --> 00:58:47,321 (dramatic music)